Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:110538 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 91952 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2020 21:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2020 21:30:54 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8EA5180509 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:16:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS8560 87.106.0.0/16 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail.nunninger.info (mail.nunninger.info [87.106.55.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 13:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p5093df94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.147.223.148] helo=[192.168.178.45]) by mail.nunninger.info with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1jkvWW-0000qY-4q; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 20:16:08 +0000 To: Stanislav Malyshev , PHP Internals References: <5bf296dc-b41d-703a-1f35-1c6c2d26e558@nunninger.info> <8064c7bf-a260-41b6-0688-804193c6043c@gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 22:16:03 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8064c7bf-a260-41b6-0688-804193c6043c@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] About the use of the terms master/slave and blacklist, proposal to replace. From: thomas@nunninger.info (Thomas Nunninger) Hi, Am 15.06.20 um 21:14 schrieb Stanislav Malyshev: > Hi! > >> I was surprised by the many negative responses: Partly just discussing >> the term "blacklist" that is perhaps not the main issue. Or telling >> people how they should feel and understand words. > > Nobody tells you how to feel. But when you claim your supposed feelings > are the reason to censor other's speech then others have the right to > object. I am not sure why this surprises you. > >> I think the same applies to this topic > > OK, so far for the 25 years of PHP existence I have never heard of a > person who was personally hurt by the use of term "blacklist". I've > heard lots of things said about PHP, good or bad, but today is the first > time I hear about this. So I am not sure we understand the term > "listening" in the same way. It might be that discussions in the US are much more heated and fundamental than in Germany. And of course there is a political/social context to those discussions that I do not know - and that probably is not relevant for this list. And it might be that I misunderstood some nuances in some mails of this topic as I'm not an English native speaker. But I'm not sure if I made my points clear: * Personally, I have no issue with the term blacklist. (And it sounds really strange to me if someone wants to forbid the term black unconditionally. So: I do *not* propose to blindly follow the newest trend of political correctness without any reason.) * I want to listen to others *who are affected*. (I assume most responses where written by white guys.) * From my point of view it's not about censorship but about understanding - and about learning. Then I can make an informed decision how I want to behave in the future, how I want to balance my side with the side of someone else. (Just talking about censorship feels like trying to stop discussion. - I assume you did not intend that.) * I didn't ask for opinions from people who are not offended. (Please, I do not want to censor you. But we heard a lot from that side.) I asked for concrete examples where people where offended in the context of the PHP project to get an understanding of the issue. If there is no response perhaps we can assume there is no issue? (At least for people on the list? Perhaps for people working in the IT context?) Regards Thomas