Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:110535 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 71750 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2020 20:21:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 15 Jun 2020 20:21:30 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08ED180510 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:06:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS8560 87.106.0.0/16 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail.nunninger.info (mail.nunninger.info [87.106.55.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p5093df94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.147.223.148] helo=[192.168.178.45]) by mail.nunninger.info with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1jkuRI-0000YR-CT; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 19:06:41 +0000 To: Daniel Rodrigues Lima , PHP Internals References: Message-ID: <5bf296dc-b41d-703a-1f35-1c6c2d26e558@nunninger.info> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 21:06:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] About the use of the terms master/slave and blacklist, proposal to replace. From: thomas@nunninger.info (Thomas Nunninger) Hi, I was surprised by the many negative responses: Partly just discussing the term "blacklist" that is perhaps not the main issue. Or telling people how they should feel and understand words. Personally, I don't have any issues with "blacklist" - as I do not see any historical reason for that term and I don't know about current abuse of that term to discriminate against special groups. (I'm not a native English speaker - so perhaps I'm missing anything.) But if "master" is used in the context of "master / slave", I clearly understand that people feel offended (while I am completely fine if "master" is used in some other context). Before discussing technical aspects about what changes would be required and what are the consequences, I'd like to point out some other aspect: I'm a white guy. I can't tell women how they should feel about male wordings, statements, behavior, whatever; I just need to listen and try to behave in a way that they feel safe. (And of course there are aspects I can't change.) I think the same applies to this topic, and it's important to get a common understanding of the problem space. (Let's talk about the solution space afterwards.) Because of that, here are my questions: * Are there any colored people on this list? * What are your feelings about this topic regarding the PHP project and community? * By what did you feel offended in the context of the PHP project currently or in the past? * What would you need to feel safe and welcome? (Not restricted to technical changes.) If you do not want to respond to the list directly, you can send the mail to me and I'll copy/paste the text of your response to the list anonymously. (I'm not sure if we need to raise this questions in a broader context regarding other groups of people. I don't want to open a can of worms. But I don't want to forget about other groups.) Regards Thomas Am 15.06.20 um 17:43 schrieb Daniel Rodrigues Lima: > Hi internals, > > I think the time has come for the PHP internals to discuss the use of master/slave and blacklist terminologies. > As everyone can see, we are going through times of change in the world, see #blackLivesMatter for example. > Therefore, I propose that we discuss the non-use of terms master/slave, because the use of this can allude to the slavery and negative feelings about black people. > > Some projects that changed the terminology: > > * https://github.com/sebastianbergmann/phpunit/commit/8e9c76d33dab4095c9066072076f368193e4166d > * https://go-review.googlesource.com/c/go/+/236857/ > * https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-2248 > * https://bugs.python.org/issue34605 > > Greets, > > Daniel Rodrigues. > > geekcom@php.net > https://twitter.com/geekcom2 > https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielrodrigueslima/ > >