Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:110475 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 32800 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2020 01:55:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp4.php.net) (45.112.84.5) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2020 01:55:24 -0000 Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFF5F1804C3 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:39:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS15169 209.85.128.0/17 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-il1-f193.google.com (mail-il1-f193.google.com [209.85.166.193]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-f193.google.com with SMTP id p5so3837666ile.6 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:39:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MTxXIc5MRHHKVFtJt+u1jYnhHLF1PFN8RlUxnomgODc=; b=dj5LzhcFoLoYN6Bn0andElZBFfPdF3U6OOMLZ6lO72O6NdeAV23QFt9q+c8u/harNL Q3wPJ3paWPQ8JJWw4DQLWdOIqJyt9EzUfpNaGSvz8mYxd99xflGXQLmznCfjn9gfqvqx 70Pajk42hNfhWxy7QRnj05hmtpukXKlwa1QlGq3isnLGuGAidJqTMCvGtsqEi0u4girP 9D+iHaquoqyx+tj2qhcK7fTUrwFv0XRzClRrSgC8pxd8ljSDYvybDyfFpw5gCg3axWAh aZIcxLyE81PnmEG0N7vyQjywLz2K5WjXRQ5y4AwYu5uhaBt1VniOvhkwnyyI7rUq01mC KHjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=MTxXIc5MRHHKVFtJt+u1jYnhHLF1PFN8RlUxnomgODc=; b=UCeK15fe6S7DRvc5zFh/S4euTLSr7+G92pPYWYN+uv9SD60ESzBVWzzwgkPU6yHzb8 Nt8i+vqp8PBFNLKCg3FOwWYTw8HrigQBUUtZtdbBENWlKGARcHQkRse6JYY7SZ/ymA3O vCehcmLXst0+yz5kzZyV7LRKSpoy3oDQaw/RnbB/xHbrl25jD1NZq5IdmrJvLc2ABFnY 80Ax9Kq2mutu4fVlQN2PIf0ZZsMmrFXQewjHPa+S0DmBxIdy/gAazqJ2nuFP5A1ydeF8 81VyuLuWE7nXMrsv8gY/pbhIBwi9WqyqxwNNM/+Dz9atS8HJ8aJrvwE9crwi6zpgGT7Z y+Rg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531BAuMBhTsWKpxYlnc+HA8Hfp+eSQuoFjk9nPJLH0JK3S4tSoNh yiYw9TnQ6eYVCmmqNojevAzw5nDkcCCVD2bSiO8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzwsPZpwTeGsP/VI2waauPuPPQA8lWW/y6dpJNpIxu5J5u7SgRsMLVq56yAzSfZcxwXN/C3QouEjuly/eC6z00= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c809:: with SMTP id v9mr5572366iln.209.1591835958339; Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:39:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:39:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: Sara Golemon , PHP internals Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d66d2f05a7c430c4" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV][RFC] Rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON From: walterp@gmail.com (Walter Parker) --000000000000d66d2f05a7c430c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 3:14 PM Sara Golemon wrote: > On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 3:33 PM Ryan Jentzsch > wrote: > > > OMG the trolling continues even today with this nonsense. Disappointing= . > > > > Oh yes. And histrionics will certainly deescalate that issue. > > > > "...yes, it is broken, people have to Google or ask around for a very > > unclear error message when for the most part errors are (and should be) > > self explanatory > > > > You know what shows up unambiguously in a google search? "Paamayim > Nekudotayim". > You know what ISN'T unambiguous in a google search? "Double Colon" > You know who don't have an excuse to say "Google is hard"? Software > engineers. > > > Can I say Double Thumbs Up to the comment about Google searches? Anybody doing software development without using a search engine is typing with one hand. When making requests, stop inventing bad ideas. Do you actually know developers that write software without ever using a search engine to look up errors? Given how most docs have moved online, that seems like people doing things the hard way without good reason. Assuming you have actually met these people, who have not even bothered to even learn the basics of life in the modern age, why must we change to support them? Couldn't we just put a line in some doc somewhere about how using search engines is a vital piece of development technology somewhere between using print statements and how to use a debugger? > > ...Two things are broken: Either the token is named badly, or the token > > names shouldn=E2=80=99t show up in error messages at all and be replace= d with > > something a bit more friendly. > > > > Token names shouldn't show up. Everyone is agreeing with that statement. > Universally. Let's fix that problem rather than create new ones by not > addressing the underlying issue. > > Once again I plead for logic and sanity. At least have the courage to put > > it to a vote. > > > > Absolutely. Put it to a vote. I've got my "no" all locked and loaded. > > -Sara > --=20 The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandei= s --000000000000d66d2f05a7c430c4--