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Sun, 7 Jun 2020 02:58:27 +0000 Received: from BYAPR05MB6535.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::54e2:1eeb:fc5d:8c21]) by BYAPR05MB6535.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::54e2:1eeb:fc5d:8c21%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3088.014; Sun, 7 Jun 2020 02:58:27 +0000 To: Nikita Popov , Nicolas Grekas CC: PHP internals Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 8.0 Thread-Index: AQHWOxhoRbhn46Gz1UqFRjUuBLVaQqjJvUeAgAAC0oCAAricqQ== Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 02:58:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:893F1315B2D86B12072CFC0B6E1392AAEE720D9E8CEDE64356351A82132B81AF;UpperCasedChecksum:95D2E828D6F4531ED12135A2B608A2E40A33576C7A686F7937EA93C328A33EB5;SizeAsReceived:7094;Count:45 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [vlA8xsdHwl4aUPnRwkyfC0HLSz1TnuU3] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 45 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7476dac2-74e3-4401-6b04-08d80a8ea6f9 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CY1NAM02HT164: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: RdQ1HhH4DfR0+tfUXSVvH2cYKQA7hxyuJpmSfePG0H9N8DW9DyTW6jFTM/FmgxeFe3Rrd1oqq9BVoTmsQXq0DB7ltr6J6hkWJhjY/xgBLiO9UV5j1SKT/Sm3nhQrSG7ZWHt2IXlZCV8i0AysqnsWhoADJPF2F1cRqxY7528QKhsRJ5YFo9aOMW0OiLBXy1Vla2uu6/OukepIvmDpAkQ5DJuuAE36dQDqkCSuOFMw7kaM1vNhh5HuYHtC+/ItsVBk x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:0;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:BYAPR05MB6535.namprd05.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFTY:;SFS:;DIR:OUT;SFP:1901; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: HGSbw4Dw51YECaKxSu0MvPXXzW8CMJG0NsnbNqaNXjWuofpRcxZMEM+LNpt2amWerQQ43pp25KnA/RUpUSYaL3Faq4zLQw1w80owC1UN/OJqDqsoT9G3Sjl+M3mc195OOV27Sypf9f+mxk+yp5q2aQ== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7476dac2-74e3-4401-6b04-08d80a8ea6f9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Jun 2020 02:58:27.5402 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1NAM02HT164 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 8.0 From: theodorejb@outlook.com (Theodore Brown) On Fri, June 5, 2020 at 4:24 AM Nikita Popov wrote:= =0A= =0A= > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 11:14 AM Nicolas Grekas =0A= > wrote:=0A= >=0A= > >> It's that time of year again. Feature freeze is looming, so it's time = to=0A= > >> talk about deprecations!=0A= > >>=0A= > >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_8_0=0A= > >=0A= > > Thanks for the RFC.=0A= > > Would it make sense for you to postpone this for 8.1?=0A= > > I'm talking with my experience on Symfony here: we decided to give ppl= =0A= > > some rest when they upgrade and always have our *.0 versions=0A= > > deprecations-free.=0A= > > Chasing BC breaks is a hard enough task for ppl to upgrade. Adding the= =0A= > > additional step of solving deprecations is extra work that is not neede= d=0A= > > yet. I know solving deprecations is optional, but many teams have CI th= at=0A= > > fail on deprecations.=0A= > >=0A= > > I think it could be nicer to the userland community to have a smother p= ath=0A= > > here, IMHO.=0A= > =0A= > Hey Nicolas,=0A= > =0A= > I'm certainly open to that! I don't think there's any strong reason to=0A= > deprecate any of these in PHP 8.0 in particular, as we'll only be able to= =0A= > drop them in PHP 9.0 anyway. Anyone else have thoughts on that?=0A= > =0A= > We do already have a couple of deprecation in PHP 8.0, but those are=0A= > generally directly related to some change that happened in PHP 8.0 in=0A= > particular.=0A= =0A= Because I follow the internals mailing list and RFCs closely, I don't=0A= personally feel too strongly about which version the deprecations are=0A= in, since regardless I can make sure my own code doesn't use these=0A= features.=0A= =0A= But for the large body of PHP devs that don't follow internals,=0A= wouldn't they want to be notified sooner if something will be=0A= deprecated? Waiting almost feels like keeping the planned deprecations=0A= a secret from outside developers, resulting in more code being written=0A= using these features in the meantime, and when they are finally=0A= deprecated the migration ends up being more work than it otherwise=0A= would be.=0A= =0A= So while I understand the desire to make upgrades as easy as possible,=0A= I'm not convinced it's a good idea to delay these deprecations for=0A= a later release. At the very least if deprecation is likely the PHP=0A= manual should say something about it.=0A= =0A= Best regards,=0A= Theodore=