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In-Reply-To: <d68311d9-8966-fd03-533a-4af2789801a0@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 11:03:04 -0400
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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 <d68311d9-8966-fd03-533a-4af2789801a0@gmail.com>
To: Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] A Standard PHAR library included with PHP?
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)

> On May 7, 2020, at 10:38 PM, Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> One of the primary reasons for many of us =E2=80=94 or at least me =
=E2=80=94 to want=20
>> more things in core is not listed above, and that reason is:
>>=20
>> - Standardization
>=20
> Core and standardization are completely different things.

I agree that they can be viewed as two different things.


> There are a lot of things in PHP that are being standardized
> out of core, and putting something into core just for
> standardization is the wrong place to do it.

However, it is the defect-standardization of knowing a feature will be =
available that motivates my request.

While I certainly understand and respect your opinion, your opinion does =
not stop me (and likely others) from wanting defecto-standardization.

Yes people always want things, but this thing is actually a meta thing =
so it is different. This thing could address a wide swath of wants in =
the community _and_ minimize the pressure for additions to the C++ based =
core.

 =20
> To me, this feature clearly looks at something that belongs to
> userspace,

That does not address the objective: defecto-standardization of =
always-available functionality.


> and magic that it introduces=20

Requiring a `use` statement would be fine. It does not have to be =
"magic." =20

The key would be to have the functionality accessible via only PHP code.


> but in some kind of module, or even better, IDE.

Having to use a specific IDE, to use Composer, or otherwise actively =
seek out and download this library also does not address the objective.=20=


Please, if you will, take this as user feedback on PHP where a userland =
PHP developer is saying the DX (developer experience) would be a lot =
better if PHP had a standard library we could assume is always there.


> Putting sematic
> features like deprecation into runtime is not right, if deprecated =
code
> got into runtime, putting out a warning each time it is run is =
useless.
> If nobody looked at these warnings before they got to production, =
surely
> nobody will look at them after.

That is unrelated. I was not addressing deprecation in this thread.


-Mike

P.S. I forgot to mention Larry Garfield's post on this subject. His post =
caused me to think of writing this thread, so here it is:

https://externals.io/message/109972#110071w