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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 21:36:28 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKuGYLTyQBtQyfG0MF=CmyDfQugQXH3MyupBrc7FiJjiWocG4A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net>
Cc: Benjamin Eberlei <kontakt@beberlei.de>, PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Attributes v2
From: matthewmatthew@gmail.com (Matthew Brown)

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Saying "the syntax makes my eyes bleed" is slightly useless feedback.

You could say "it's hard to scan", but I don't even think that's true =E2=
=80=93
prepending everything << makes it easy to pick out attributes in plain text
at a glance, and one can assume that IDEs will help even further.

Additionally this syntax has effectively been battle-tested at scale
already in PHP-like codebases =E2=80=93 thousands of engineers at Facebook =
and
Slack have used it over the last few years, and been productive with it.

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 21:02, Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net> wrote:

> > On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Benjamin Eberlei <kontakt@beberlei.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I want to resurrect Dmitrys Attributes RFC that was rejected for 7.1 in
> > 2016 with a few changes, incorporating feedback from the mailing list
> back
> > then and from talking to previous no voters.
> >
> > The RFC is at https://wiki.php.net/rfc/attributes_v2
> >
> > A working patch is at https://github.com/beberlei/php-src/pull/2 though
> > work around the details is still necessary.
> >
> > The RFC contains a section with common criticism and objections to
> > attributes, and I hope to have collected and responded to a good amount
> > already from previous discussions.
> >
> > There is also a fair amount of implementation detail still up for debat=
e,
> > which is noted in "Open Issues". I have pre-committed to one approach,
> but
> > listed alternatives there. On these issues I am looking for your
> feedback.
> >
> > greetings
> > Benjamin
>
> I am very excited to see this. I make heavy use of pseduo-attributes in
> both PhpDoc and using class constants, and having real attributes would b=
e
> quite the boon.
>
> I do have a few concerns.
>
> 1. The syntax makes my eyes bleed.
> ---------------
>
> I find angle brackets extremely hard to read and fear =E2=80=94 have trai=
ned many
> newbies in programming =E2=80=94 that it will cause newbies who see PHP t=
o think it
> is too complex for them to consider learning.
>
> You mention that the good symbols are taken, but why limit ourselves to
> symbols?  Why not use words like PHP uses for other parts of the language=
?
>
> So instead of:
>
> <<SingleArgument("Hello")>>
> <<Another\SingleArgument("World")>>
> <<\My\Attributes\FewArguments("foo", "bar")>>
> function foo() {}
>
> Why not use?:
>
> attribute SingleArgument("Hello")
> attribute Another\SingleArgument("World")
> attribute \My\Attributes\FewArguments("foo", "bar")
> function foo() {}
>
> If we don't want to make attribute a keyword, why not this?:
>
> function attribute SingleArgument("Hello")
> function attribute Another\SingleArgument("World")
> function attribute \My\Attributes\FewArguments("foo", "bar")
> function foo() {}
>
> Or?:
>
> function attributes
>         SingleArgument("Hello"),
>         Another\SingleArgument("World"),
>         \My\Attributes\FewArguments("foo", "bar")
> function foo() {}
>
> Alternately, why not use this (which is probably the best option IMO)?:
>
> function foo() attributes
>         SingleArgument("Hello"),
>         Another\SingleArgument("World"),
>         \My\Attributes\FewArguments("foo", "bar") {}
>
>
> 2. How do your attributes relate to traits and interfaces?
> ---------------
>
> I assume that anything you could do in a class you could do in a trait,
> but what about interfaces?
>
> Using my syntax, could we have attributes defines in an interface and the=
n
> require them to be implemented?  For example,
>
>
> interface Storable attributes
>    StorageEngine(string $engine),
>    DoNotTestMethodsPrefixedWith(string $prefix){
>    function store() attributes PermissionsRequired(string $role) {}
> }
>
> When implemented that might look like this:
>
> class AdminOnly() implements Storable attributes
>    StorageEngine("mongodb"),
>    DoNotTestMethodsPrefixedWith("_"){
>    function store() attributes PermissionsRequired("admin") {}
>    ...
> }
>
> Other than those two concerns, I'm sold!
>
> -Mike
>
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>
>

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