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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 14:22:39 -0500
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To: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Typed array properties V2
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)

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> On Jan 23, 2020, at 3:04 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com> =
wrote:

> You are getting into static analysis territory here with that. There =
are already static analysis tools that do exactly this type of array =
type checking during development. For example, there are three type =
mistakes in this code:
> <snip>
> Running Phan on it produces:

Understood.  But in my experience a large number of PHP developers do =
not use Phan.  At least not in the WordPress realm.

For my current project we tried for two days to get Phan to work but it =
generated so many errors that were not actually errors we gave up.  I am =
sure it were possible if we had had the time and expertise to configure =
it correctly we could have gotten it working, but I would not be =
surprised if we are unique in that respect.

IOW, if a tool is very complex to get working, its existence is not a =
solution except for advanced teams and use-cases where the benefits are =
so overwhelming that teams managers are willing to fund the time it =
takes to implement.

> Really expensive checks like this belong at the static analysis stage. =
And yes, it would be amazing to have a static analyzer built into PHP, =
which is basically what you are asking for here,=20

Expensive checks would not be a problem if they could be run once during =
OpCode generation without affecting day-to-day code generation, right?

> But at Etsy, at least, this code would never make it to production =
because static analysis checks are run by all developers and also run =
automatically during staging prior to a production push.

To be fair, I would say Etsy is an extreme outlier.=20

Few business across the economy are fully web-based, have the revenue of =
Etsy and thus the financial downside Esty experiences when there is a =
problem on their website. Etsy is exactly the type of use-case I was =
referring to where the benefits of using tools like Phan are so =
overwhelming that management understands the need.

But many other companies won't see such an overwhelming benefit and thus =
managers often just don't appreciate the need to work on it.

#justsaying


> but that is a huge task and goes way beyond just this particular =
check.

Understood. =20

But my above comments are to point out that the existence of Phan is not =
a panacea.

-Mike=

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