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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 19:36:00 +0700
Message-ID: <CAEZPtU7HYbDUdwo6h34-BtzJ3CFuZwo8dTJM9riAVmoFaa04fA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com>
Cc: Benjamin Eberlei <kontakt@beberlei.de>, =?UTF-8?Q?Johannes_Schl=C3=BCter?= <johannes@schlueters.de>, 
	Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b806f70596848f5b"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] GitHub RFC workflow
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

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sorry, bad roads and writing from my mobile. I am not driving but still ;-)

On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 7:33 PM Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 7:25 PM Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Afternoon,
>>
>> It should be clear that if we were in receipt of the kind of notice that
>> the Guardia sent to Github we would be extremely ill advised to ignore it,
>> regardless of the services we use, location of servers, or any other detail
>> you care to mention. The Guardia did not target Github because of their
>> affiliation with any state, country, or company but because of their
>> association with the contravention of the mentioned laws.
>>
>
> It will go a bit off topic however let me take another real example.
>
> In Brunai, lgbt* lost all their rights. Promotions, many areas are
> affected if not all. one will break the law one or another by helping or
> doing some activities with "proven" LGBT.
>

-promotions


> In 1930s and later, everything done to the Jews and other communities were
> followed the laws.
>

+In Europe


> What I seriously question, and this is a debate we sadly have to have
> these days, is our stand about all laws being promulgated in so many
> countries, laws that would raise revolt or more in most of my or your
> countries.
>
> The not so dramatic case in spain belongs to that as well. Btw.
>
> best,
>
>
>> > Given the current context, in so many countries, commercial companies
>> are under huge pressures from governments.
>>
>> Making these things our problem doesn't make a whole lot of practical
>> sense.
>>
>> If we can't find practical reasons not to take advantage of what is being
>> offered, then I don't think we should put theoretical problems in the way
>> of progress.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 12:57, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019, 2:35 PM Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Morning Pierre,
>>>>
>>>> > Sorry, no time to dig in our list of current active contributors and
>>>> define the risks for each of them.
>>>>
>>>> That's not what I asked for, I asked for a single concrete example
>>>> where this would have in fact been a problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Iran, Venezuela (not sure we have some in our contributors) f.e. cannot
>>> use github, depends on the case but either by citizenship or actual
>>> locations. By paid account, banned if based in either country.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm in Spain, and unaware of any access problems ...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kevn7/spain-and-github-are-blocking-an-app-that-helped-protesters-organize
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can you point me to a story explaining what you're talking about in
>>>> regards to Spain and South America ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> see above.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm not suggesting we ignore it, and I may in fact be ignorant of some
>>>> of the problems you are talking about. But, at bottom world politics and
>>>> political instability are not the problem of an open source project.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also not suggesting we move everything to github. I'm simply
>>>> questioning the "owning all content" mantra because it doesn't make as much
>>>> sense today as perhaps it once did.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks you for the clarification. I am also all fine to use github. I
>>> however would like to ensure everyone can participate.
>>>
>>> Given the current context, in so many countries, commercial companies
>>> are under huge pressures from governments.
>>>
>>> Not many care about Iran or Venezuela but I feel like other communities
>>> could be next if things get worst, and not only nation based communities
>>> but religions, orientations, etc. Indeed not in UK or EU, but I am not sure
>>> at all about (too) many other countries.
>>>
>>>>

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