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Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 00:11:44 -0400
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps"
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)

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> I'm not sure where's the log jam here?

The issue is not this specific RFC. =20

As I wrote earlier, there appear to be heated and non-stop debates over =
(at least) BC, and possibly other areas. People dig in on a position and =
then won't consider any other options that might be available.

> It's a logjam only if somehow we were to imagine more BC
> breaks, more deprecations and more removal of functionality is somehow
> vitally necessary for PHP - which decades of thriving without all that
> amply prove to be false.

Let me restate then, because what was important was not that the word I =
used matched internals@ circumstances exactly, but the fact that there =
is an issue with how the process currently works, as many other people =
have noted already.

We can call it something other than a logjam if it is important to you =
that the word matches.  What about dysfunction instead?

> I don't see what's wrong with just "do not break BC unless you
> absolutely can't avoid it"... How comes now we have to spend
> so much time at affirming the obvious?

Frankly I would agree with that, if it were not for a large number of =
people who are actively promoting changes to PHP that would break BC. So =
clearly the current composition of this list includes people who see =
something wrong with the approach you see no reason to question.

Note I am not endorsing their opinion but I am recognizing they have =
this opinion and they are actively trying to change PHP.  So we can =
embrace insanity =E2=80=94 as Einstein would say =E2=80=94 and fight =
never-ending battles on the list, or we can find ways to accommodate =
everyones needs and wants, assuming everyone else is willing to find way =
to accommodate the needs and wants of people that disagree with them.

Looking in from the outside, few people who send emails to this list =
appear to be interested in finding common ground. But maybe if we help =
everyone recognize that nobody wins =E2=80=94 including themselves =E2=80=94=
 when a group of people divide up and stake out intransigent and =
diametrically-opposed positions then the list can be a lot more =
productive.

No single person owns PHP so it is rather ungenerous to adopt a view =
that PHP should conform to any one individual view of the perfect =
programming language.  So what if instead we collectively ask ourselves =
the question "What can I do to meet the other people half way =E2=80=94 =
in ways that won't really cost me all that much =E2=80=94 rather than to =
maintain an unrelentingly rigid posture about the needs and wants of =
others?" =20

-Mike


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