Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:107461 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 17289 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2019 05:43:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO php-smtp3.php.net) (208.43.231.12) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 10 Oct 2019 05:43:47 -0000 Received: from php-smtp3.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp3.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F632D20A7 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 20:26:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on php-smtp3.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-ASN: AS3215 2.6.0.0/16 X-Spam-Virus: No Received: from mail-pg1-x52c.google.com (mail-pg1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp3.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 20:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id x10so2732098pgi.5 for ; Wed, 09 Oct 2019 20:26:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:autocrypt:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hmU4LsTiywpc2cK3kV+rO5+MMe+yQAGZqOt9ama9OGI=; b=nVBgxc0szu5kIJfBRmh5YCEScTsdrOw/cyXkFiif62zXjTPyh5QlI0YJXpOqDIIW57 CcHXmAYwxL+aubYqQOH3XuOnpuh+DbHOSq7J3jwnrmmSiQEig6er7A4LTRhXbj8cf2RJ SQLt2hYQ0MMEDvsTBn6dU0z3x3t/dnH5jYsFWYqZnG+LvApLv8TEUlTGIO12QbqVBLPP pULJNestbfi0tVQPVCmL8MnvVVvM3Ski95ZFqjEp6vdSklpEat/psZQlCCsfF6ouMMSo aACecxOBtEmsbl3lYf3A+lXgICV49wvRIOx3U0YWNO3qI9hhItyN+1uCDtneZBQ+tIzZ WIfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hmU4LsTiywpc2cK3kV+rO5+MMe+yQAGZqOt9ama9OGI=; b=KPSrpEikEJpnvqtw216M+/eJ0tkAuEJAcUYrN25ZLKE3Y+HY9wFEtP1n3Aw+R294C6 dXt67vV5MLRJMWb5pQuUESXqffRzZBVjovuQRoGaFiEX7L08RZIa/WOrJxE4P3KLmXev kE8I9hUOQNp0ZbxItW2tG2bm7jm4IbVvBo92i8ibwjU0CVknydZ4N8q+y/as3ZK3Ft8x KNWNDnd/2MnzLn6Ui74LP8K8wBilgQlZb0W2gW2Y/vGE5DjXCHqUI/JQkMdojHvE+qZC dmpwRJczlwL0B0faMGys1BARhlt7U4lpS+76grwVYtOoWZmaTweHZOBttmOJRZIT8FsP yC0g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU5O4Im9N5GAa/pR15TahDddr3BSrq8ekkwTTae3BfXqnZSLl38 sSAlWin6rTOr66V1ocW9vKwux+W0uA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzq0ikySRYGBWgPXV05Lqhnhg8c6AOvGE84zyMT1fOHpw1h0DahsAGOXMh5apARbjQbWA8pOQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1aa9:: with SMTP id p38mr8648468pjp.142.1570677992667; Wed, 09 Oct 2019 20:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Stas-Mac.local (ec2-34-209-88-149.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com. [34.209.88.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z2sm3972788pfq.58.2019.10.09.20.26.31 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Oct 2019 20:26:31 -0700 (PDT) To: Mike Schinkel Cc: php internals References: <5d976928.1c69fb81.db3a8.78daSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> <413d377a-4ce1-a521-0cb4-5bb37e84c257@gmail.com> <6DFA91F7-0005-453E-A314-A5DFE1A4D3D3@newclarity.net> <82012CD7-088D-4010-922E-AD54186AE37A@newclarity.net> <67A49D41-A65F-4C07-82B2-1C19F17B2200@newclarity.net> Autocrypt: addr=smalyshev@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsJuBE9mqaARCACFSqcGmNunkjQQu3X+yXnTmFeEkvM4JXZTOBdR8aEevNGmmFEfyvjaDjWi 9hcwp4E/lYtC+P7VsVjM1OSX9eq0jC/lGL0ZyRXek+mNy0n5H1NSuTpf9Y18LMqhc4G+RU+L cNiZ9K0DJuOOvNLPxW7OHZguxb3wdKPXNVa2jyRfJAKm2uaJJMT1mTmFT9a0Q8SKr+mUrrJk uG0H2o6SzrKt8Wwoint1eh67zVsJaJtQFchnEZnlawIcqP2yC4nLGR3MkubowxoEBYCZet18 aHVVRbvpG2Qtob8Lu5xrsGbmXymTkHTdpvkfcJFADa8MzOL90zOxXwbGfbIZOlh5En8jAQCX lfnx2eQL3BSW/6XANa51dbWiEp1d1BAkpGKtZvlk0Qf+M9WAi+9aXMe3xP5krxtgnRNUf2WN 6Zdy2MxL1RRJCFbytLhl0ronC49BsGYVGshdEH8xhBbiIOJKuVZ/DTl9bEm7P9c7CC7iJyVC khUAhouH6xzZQNLR+RU+QebYzXypVfl99Qk7EdMmr/WAZCHLuvanyqepC5EBsa3VnAfQemSN oBeGBKWWLiOsPjvS72+y1z4RUMAfXHn4l/sFMt8zt7/74AmJPwZquV41p4mPO12V4+xPyc6R sB84sfsk2QVivU8w8AkvGQeYjXoz7Iwao95+fWteVzZ36KRQvUckP8pGjHlDXnHxJ0HI1I/k OBZSjwRwUf0dd73y6erPhbLk+gf+NdI3H9KGJBzG5/rVyWKwUeQ9d5ud4jTJRkQGvAP5pg76 vEa9dogbpe4W5Z+0BfbiJSnQmQWSHiZddj/t33ptbup44Ck6ZTgdlmFYMLF1hR47PIZTDKER EuKYGci/vq8snZvEJP9YCw/TtiHcMdrMKcY/+Lp8lQO0GHLPB9glVhnC0db6l1Xpg1CMI8/R ozBMcij30EgATggC/y2zbiqAFoS9FN9nXPbe4phStqABEyeZ+nXudt7PUYTjVgcrqo8bHZCi sBobWC7OnKyUzxVxzUeuPkIfmZuzkLaMw2McQdvwwsNvQ0DzaLP30c1Xsm/7EIYJcOWpzlVJ 5QrdmE0/Bc0yU3RhbmlzbGF2IE1hbHlzaGV2IChQSFAga2V5KSA8c21hbHlzaGV2QGdtYWls LmNvbT7CegQTEQgAIgUCT2aqtAIbAwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQL3lW vF2gS12XMwD9HuRIolSwIK77u8EY461y2u6sbX36n5/uo/LDQuxoi3sA/0MvpnvzOhv9Iufv vsZEj3E7i3h+iD5648YMwfTFCij+zsFNBE9mqaAQCADfZPMpjZkkGZj3BY/7ApoLq4mwqzbh +CpLXwNn20tFNvSXfb8RdeXvVEb7Scx+W9qYpiaun2iXJgCVH8fgpZpR856ulT1q6uCG++CX ubEvip/eJkZl93/84h04KQJwsgOrAh0Om3OePRn8Pr+++0LNS0EL8uX/YHeTOGOnnmTqYTey SBVFdov6L4mepddfjekicKQqhL7mZh/xuq29JijT0uNNX8v4vDWQDu5dlAcdd+uB3gcXMD/P ginD11zp+6wtrWCm/+yBqpvDwXQX5PGUnwvbRfl7Ay3MmwmoXiecZMg0dwTSc7e0lhB4HGRH ZdBMJB4rHUVGdzqujK/ctOvrAAMFB/0Utb76Qe6sCMlHxVAmeE/fbo7Pi05btZ/x01r67dHf aMSP0riCKJ7M0OW+jAXtu9+z/BVnYisW67WWfxl2cS5tZDgiHgJARXWUOO72+sScHP8KQmTl 1z16gyKbwY3SmyBkwcpOL35nhUWNLy93syPoY6sZUTikr2bZYukHDQ33XBPs4e6MbWKfsa9q aVmnlOF3k5UqChjutfHaEa4Q7VP4wBIpphHBi9MI16oJIzzBPbGl2uoedjwiZ6QeQZnSuOVY ZxU2d3lRA8PrtfFN1VSlpEm/VcAvtieHUYWHN0wOu+cp3Slr5XJVNjTjJhl28SlinMME54mK AGf2Ldr/dRwXwmEEGBEIAAkFAk9mqaACGwwACgkQL3lWvF2gS126EQD/VVd3FgjLKglClRQP zdfU847tqDK4zJjbmRv5vLLwoE0A+wbrQs7jVGU3NrS0AIl5vUmewpp2BKzSkepy23nWmejw Message-ID: <826c5050-6f7b-33c8-d856-60996b6210f3@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 20:26:31 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <67A49D41-A65F-4C07-82B2-1C19F17B2200@newclarity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Envelope-From: Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals "camps" From: smalyshev@gmail.com (Stanislav Malyshev) Hi! > Maybe that would be a way to move forward with some of the log jams here? I'm not sure where's the log jam here? An RFC proposing largely pointless deprecation not being met with overall enthusiasm is not a "logjam". It's a logjam only if somehow we were to imagine more BC breaks, more deprecations and more removal of functionality is somehow vitally necessary for PHP - which decades of thriving without all that amply prove to be false. I don't see what's wrong with just "do not break BC unless you absolutely can't avoid it" and why we need some grand World Council to arrive to this simple guideline that has been understood as obvious for years and has been also accepted by many other software projects? How comes now we have to spend so much time at affirming the obvious? -- Stas Malyshev smalyshev@gmail.com