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In-Reply-To: <D2050867-9A1B-45D1-A51E-F7AFEE47DD69@newclarity.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2019 23:34:13 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJHtznwX-V8KKSyqir-BQBeaovP3+a6-EoafOFxpgGwAqth3sg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000045c2fb05946cfef0"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecate Backtick Operator (V2)
From: zeev@php.net (Zeev Suraski)

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On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 at 22:38 Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net> wrote:

> > a middle ground about/with silliness? there is none, for people in thei=
r
> right mind; should people really find/force
> > themselves into conciliation about non-sense? I don't think so and
> mostly; I have no say about deprecating that;
> > but is that a priority? does it harm anyone? someone have died from
> backtick infection, it must be according to some?
> > and so on. Don't see where there is a heated topic; solely a reminder
> about reality and facts.
>
> > What would a happy medium be? backticks working 50% of the time?
> > This is like someone being pregnant, either you are or you are not ther=
e
> is
> > no half pregnant. Either backticks work like they have in shells for
> decades
> > or they don't work. What's the point of deprecating them without a plan
> to
> > remove them? A notice without future action is a bad idea, as it sets
> > standard that some deprecation messages will not be acted upon.
>
> Well, those are exactly the opposite of the types of responses I had hope=
d
> for.
>

Mike,

In a parallel universe, where this proposal has never been created and
brought up for discussion - backticks would continue to work precisely as
they did for twenty years, precisely with the advantages and disadvantages
they had the day they were introduced, and this continue being the
non-issue that it=E2=80=99s always been.  Nobody would be thinking about it=
,
opining about it and let alone quarreling about it.

Unfortunately, we don=E2=80=99t live in that parallel universe, and suddenl=
y this
thing that bugged nobody for decades becomes a sudden priority for
discussion.  It=E2=80=99s also not as if we can ignore it either - we=E2=80=
=99ve seen how
that went with short tags.  So while I sympathize with the effort to find a
compromise - encouraging more of these contentious proposals (by
accommodating them at some level) is not the way.

The real middle ground is to go for some form of opt-in solution.  Whether
it=E2=80=99s granular declares, strict mode, P++, editions - this is the on=
ly way
to diffuse this contention - by rendering it irrelevant - precisely as it
should be.  Contrary to the perception many here appear to be under,
there=E2=80=99s no feasibility question-mark over any of these options - th=
ey=E2=80=99re
all doable, and even easy to implement.  This solution would also not be
some band aid until the next out of the blue proposal comes along - but a
framework to thoroughly diffuse these types of contention once and for all.

Zeev

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