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In-Reply-To: <e227140b-e1e1-451d-b864-4a966c9233a3@Spark>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 13:55:42 +0100
Message-ID: <CALKiJKqtm-hoQwBSxKmBkGXX3Oz7j2gBdMeMb1=L3Qd1Yta2Zw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Prevent disruptions of conversations
From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Tommins)

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On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 at 09:27, Brent <brendt@stitcher.io> wrote:

> Zeev, while I agree with many of your points, you also don't offer a
> concrete solution.
>


To be fair to Zeev, he did in fact try to kick off a discussion about
Workflows and Voting back in January: https://externals.io/message/103917 |
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting2019 For various reasons, both within the
community and outside it, this proposal was suspended.

The other problem with demanding people propose solutions at this point is
that we haven't agreed on what the problems are. Depending who you ask, the
problems to be tackled might include any of:

- the tone of the list is too aggressive, and needs moderation
- discussions are happening on the list which should be elsewhere
- people are posting too many messages
- proposals are being made which are against the spirit of the language
- the language is evolving too fast, or too slowly
- the direction of the language is poorly defined
- proposals are being put to a vote which should be decided a different way
- core developers are wielding undue influence, or being denied necessary
influence
- voting rights are ill-defined

... and many more besides.

Some of these should be tackled as separate issues, but some are symptoms
of each other. If I had to pick one root cause, it would be the lack of
clear leadership and process, because without that it's not clear who has
authority to tackle the others. But we need to reach some consensus on the
right question before we start digging into detailed answers.

Regards,
-- 
Rowan Tommins
[IMSoP]

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