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Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 08:55:02 -0500
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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To: Brent <brendt@stitcher.io>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Prevent disruptions of conversations
From: pmjones@pmjones.io ("Paul M. Jones")

Hey there --

>>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 01:25, Brent <brendt@stitcher.io> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Moderators are no dictators
>>=20
>> Maybe, maybe not.
>>=20
>> But moderators can and do play favorites, banning or silencing one =
voice (of whom they disapprove) for the same things that they ignore =
from another voice (of whom they do approve).=20
>=20
> I feel like internals@ members have very little trust in their peers

Perhaps; trust can be hard to come by.


> and fear the world will burn and PHP will die because of moderators =
who try to keep the discussions ontopic and civil.

I think the fear is not of "the world burning" but of "being silenced."

Further, "on-topic" is in the eye of the beholder; once there are =
moderators, their eyes are the only ones that matter.


> Say five moderators are appointed and one turns out to be a bad one, a =
dictator, a villain;

We need not presume a villain or dictator. We need presume only =
groupthink -- a groupthink that biases moderator actions to err always =
on the same side (that is, the side populated by voices the moderators =
approve of).


>  the other four *and* the community at large can simply dismiss that =
bad one.

Ah, if only that were true. No, moderators have the power to act =
immediately, whereas any oversight regarding them can act only slowly, =
with deliberation, after long latency -- and even *then* only after long =
discussion, which the moderators themselves control. No, there is no way =
to "simply" dismiss a moderator.


>> Moderators, with the power to ban and to silence, become the owners =
of the project whose communications they moderate. By controlling the =
flow of information in a project, moderators control the status of the =
members in that project, and thereby control the direction of the =
project.=20
>=20
> I've been part of numerous online communities over the years, and this =
has never, ever, been a problem anywhere.

I've been a part of numerous online communities as well, and I have =
found it to be a problem quite often -- especially at the point of =
introduction of moderators.


> Now PHP and internals@ might be the exception, though I think a little =
common sense and human decency will get us a long way and might even =
make internals@ productive again.

I think there is quite a bit of "common sense and human decency" in play =
here already, even if not universal and uninterrupted -- nobody on this =
list is an angel, though some are more devilish than others.


--=20
Paul M. Jones
pmjones@pmjones.io
http://paul-m-jones.com

Modernizing Legacy Applications in PHP
https://leanpub.com/mlaphp

Solving the N+1 Problem in PHP
https://leanpub.com/sn1php