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To: Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:30:07 -0700
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Prevent disruptions of conversations
From: smalyshev@gmail.com (Stanislav Malyshev)

Hi!

> Please can you look at the past 3 months of discussions on this list
> and ask yourself have those conversations been productive and/or
> pleasant? Do you think other people think those conversations have
> been productive and/or pleasant?

I've seen a lot of conversations here, both productive and not. I am not
sure how adding conversations about who should not be allowed to talk
and should be expelled from the community for wrongthink and questioning
the holy RFC process makes it any better. In my opinion, it would make
it much worse.

> It's possible to send the same message with different emotional affect.

So now we have the RFC to boot people from the community because their
message has wrong "emotional effect" (on whom?). The emotional effect of
this on me is that it makes me very, very sad and disappointed.

> If it's phrased as, "I think I would vote no on an RFC" it makes your
> message clear without making the recipient feel bad.

I am sure if you wrote a guide on how to properly speak and put it on
wiki, it would be very useful and popular among many members of the
community. However what I am objecting to is not to your very helpful
advice about how to express my feelings and intents, but your RFC about
voting people off the island for saying something somebody decides has
wrong "emotional effect". This is a disastrous idea and will lead to
complete degradation of the quality of discussion - if you think it's
non productive now, wait until you add threads about people demanding
their opponents to be silenced because reading their emails makes them
feel bad. And I think merely saying "I would not vote for it" does not
make it clear how bad I think such development would be. Moreover,
saying "I would not vote for it" is quite useless without explaining
why. And yes, reading explanation why somebody thinks your idea - which
you undoubtedly invested a lot into - is bad may be emotionally taxing.
I appreciate that, but that's what should happen when the idea is bad,
and I trust everybody here is enough of a mature adult to be able to
deal with such an event.

> Trying to compare an attempt to keep the mailing list productive to
> 'introducing martial law' seems quite a stretch.

It is a bit of a stretch, I of course do not mean it literally, as I am
sure you know. I mean that the things you propose is way out of
proportion and will only make things worse productivity-wise. I
appreciate and share you intent of making the list productive but I
completely reject the means you choose for this - namely, instituting
mechanism of (ab)using RFC process to ban people from the community for
things like "sending too many emails", questioning RFC process and
sending messages with "different emotional affect" than you'd like.

-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalyshev@gmail.com