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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 09:14:31 +0200
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Prevent disruptions of conversations
From: andreas@heigl.org (Andreas Heigl)

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From: Andreas Heigl <andreas@heigl.org>
To: internals@lists.php.net
Message-ID: <893cc688-c8a2-1da3-e72c-de952f3f774d@heigl.org>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Prevent disruptions of conversations
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Hey Stas, Hey All.

Am 20.09.19 um 08:00 schrieb Stanislav Malyshev:
> Hi!
>=20
>> taken part of). So given that track record, along with how the project=

>> philosophy generally is, I  do not see abuse being a problem, even the=

>> sligtest.
>=20
> There are a lot of things that I thought our project philosophy does no=
t
> admit, but turns out I have been wrong. I don't see why if we are
> already discussing banning people for questioning the holy RFC process,=

> we'd need any "abuse" to have a problem. I think mere "use" of this RFC=
,
> as written - to ban people for expressing "wrong" thoughts that somebod=
y
> (who?) deems "disrupting" - IMO would be abuse enough. And if it's neve=
r
> intended to be used, then why have it? As you yourself mentioned, we've=

> dealt with rare disruptive individuals before it without too much
> problem and without dramatic speech code RFCs. Clearly, this is meant t=
o
> go further than that. And that direction is scary to me.

"we" have not dealt with disruptive people, IIRC someone took action and
removed them.

"without too much problem"... I start to ask myself whether I read the
same mailinglist as you...

"rare disruptive individuals"... Again I ask myself whether I read the
same mailinglist...

"without dramatic speech code"... Yes. That was exactly the problem. No
process that was agreed on *before* shit hits the fan.

No one wants to ban people "for questioning the whole RFC process". A
ban is something that *can* occur *after* people have tried other means
of making the person in question aware of their disruptive behaviour
*and nothing changed*. *After* that *everyone with a vote* can decide on
whether that behaviour validates a ban.

To me it looks like you are trying to make this RFC look like it tries
to force a ban on people that want to contribute. While this is not the
idea of the RFC I ask myself why you are so strongly against trying to
find a way to get a less disruptive email-list.

A toxic and disruptive email-list that drives the creation of PHP not
only drives people away that would like to contribute to the language
itself but also drives people away that might want to use PHP for their
projects but are not sure about whether the language is such a good
choice if that is the tone of development. People will leave PHP because
they are not sure whether PHP has a future when the people creating the
language can't even decide on how to talk to one another...

Just my 0.02 =E2=82=AC

Cheers

Andreas
>=20

--=20
                                                              ,,,
                                                             (o o)
+---------------------------------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-+
| Andreas Heigl                                                       |
| mailto:andreas@heigl.org                  N 50=C2=B022'59.5" E 08=C2=B0=
23'58" |
| http://andreas.heigl.org                       http://hei.gl/wiFKy7 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| http://hei.gl/root-ca                                               |
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