Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:107176
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <F1E4D4E4-57E1-4B27-B6D2-81E9BA6B096D@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <F1E4D4E4-57E1-4B27-B6D2-81E9BA6B096D@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 15:55:16 -0300
Message-ID: <CAOHbTA78LC8qAZWUO8AQv85fdb2M=7OyJtZ8UYzRsuG7cqTU7Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mike Schinkel <mikeschinkel@gmail.com>
Cc: Olumide Samson <oludonsexy@gmail.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000af30df0592b025f6"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP's declining(?) popularity
From: daniel.spiridione@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_Mart=C3=ADn_Spiridione?=)

--000000000000af30df0592b025f6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The lack of concurrent PHP features in 2019 is, in my opinion, sufficient
reason not to use it for CLI projects.
Some companies do not welcome installing extensions like Swoole, the
language should have native concurrent features.

Daniel

El dom., 15 sept. 2019 a las 0:33, Mike Schinkel (<mikeschinkel@gmail.com>)
escribi=C3=B3:

> > On Sep 14, 2019, at 5:18 PM, Olumide Samson <oludonsexy@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > https://jaxenter.com/php-tiobe-sept-2019-162096.html
> > I think this is one of those things we get from voting no...
> >
> > I might be wrong anyways :-?
>
> If those specific rankings are legitimately a cause for concern then it
> would make sense to do some objective analysis to determine why the
> languages that are growing marketshare are growing.
>
> From the list it seems Python stands out as having the most growth as a
> percentage.
>
> Googling for "why has python become so popular" I get these articles.
>
> I have copied their top level points but also included the text for the
> one point they all seem to have in common, that Python is simple, easy to
> use and easy to learn for new users (emphasis mine in all cases):
>
>
> https://medium.com/@trungluongquang/why-python-is-popular-despite-being-s=
uper-slow-83a8320412a9
> <
> https://medium.com/@trungluongquang/why-python-is-popular-despite-being-s=
uper-slow-83a8320412a9
> >
> 1. End-users just don=E2=80=99t care (about slower performance)
> 2. More Productive
> "First and foremost reason why Python is much popular because it is highl=
y
> productive as compared to other programming languages like C++ and Java. =
It
> is much more concise and expressive language and requires less time,
> effort, and lines of code to perform the same operations. The Python
> features like one-liners and dynamic type system allow developers to writ=
e
> very fewer lines of code for tasks that require more lines of code in oth=
er
> languages. This makes Python very easy-to-learn programming language even
> for beginners and newbies. For instance, Python programs are slower than
> Java, but they also take very less time to develop, as Python codes are 3
> to 5 times shorter than Java codes. Python is also very famous for its
> simple programming syntax, code readability and English-like commands tha=
t
> make coding in Python lot easier and efficient."
> 3. Execution Speed does not matter as much as Business Speed
>
>
>
> https://www.kdnuggets.com/2017/07/6-reasons-python-suddenly-super-popular=
.html
> <
> https://www.kdnuggets.com/2017/07/6-reasons-python-suddenly-super-popular=
.html
> >
> 1. Python Has a Healthy, Active and Supportive Community
> 2. Python Has Some Great Corporate Sponsors
> 3. Python Has Big Data
> 4. Python Has Amazing Libraries
> 5. Python Is Reliable and Efficient
> 6. Python Is Accessible
> "For newcomers and beginners, Python is incredibly easy to learn and use.
> In fact, it=E2=80=99s one of the most accessible programming languages av=
ailable.
> Part of the reason is the simplified syntax with an emphasis on natural
> language. But it=E2=80=99s also because you can write Python code and exe=
cute it
> much faster."
>
>
> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-python-is-so-popular-with-develo=
pers-3-reasons-the-language-has-exploded/
> <
> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/why-python-is-so-popular-with-develo=
pers-3-reasons-the-language-has-exploded/
> >
>
> 1. Ease of learning
> "Python is the closest language to what I call 'an instant gratification
> language,' meaning with very little code, it can accomplish so much, even
> if you are a novice programmer," said Karen Panetta, an IEEE Fellow and
> Dean of Graduate Engineering at Tufts University. "This is because Python
> reads like English, which makes it more conducive for a broad level of us=
er
> audiences to learn. Many of the 'nerdy' low-level details we used to worr=
y
> about in other languages, such as declaring types of variables or
> arguments, are handled by Python, so it makes programming very flexible a=
nd
> easier to use than other languages."
> 2. The explosion of AI, machine learning, and data science in the
> enterprise
> 3. A large developer community
>
>
>
> https://www.skillsoft.com/blog/2018/06/top-5-reasons-why-python-is-so-pop=
ular/
> <
> https://www.skillsoft.com/blog/2018/06/top-5-reasons-why-python-is-so-pop=
ular/
> >
>
> 1. Python is efficient
> 2. Python has an active community
> 3. Python is simple
> "With a shorter learning curve than other languages, say Java or C++, and
> understandable and readable syntax, you don=E2=80=99t need to be a progra=
mmer to
> start applying Python to everyday tasks. Python automatically takes care =
of
> things like garbage collection and even closes files, opened via the =E2=
=80=98with=E2=80=99
> statement, for you. People starting out may also find the use of
> indentation to signify the start and end of loops, functions, classes and
> code blocks easier than tracking down the traditional opening and closing
> curly braces."
> 4. Python is in academia
> 5. Python is on trend
>
>
> https://eplexity.com/6-reasons-the-python-programming-language-is-so-popu=
lar/
> <
> https://eplexity.com/6-reasons-the-python-programming-language-is-so-popu=
lar/
> >
>
> 1. Ease of use
> "Since its creation in the late 1980s by Guido van Rossum, Python has bee=
n
> specifically designed to be a general-purpose language. The simplicity of
> Python, and its easily human-readable syntax are two reasons why the
> language is so popular among seasoned coding professionals and Computer
> Science 101 students alike. Python is also an interpreted language, which
> means that you can quickly experiment with changes to the code base."
> 2. Supportive community
> 3. Corporate sponsors
> 4. Libraries and frameworks
> 5. Use in big data and machine learning
> 6. Efficiency
>
> Notice in none of these articles is there any mention of static typing or
> strictness or correctness as an attribute that the authors think
> contributes to why Python is gaining success.
>
> So my takeaway would be that if we wanted to see PHP start gaining
> marketshare again we should focus on features that make it easier to use
> and spend less time on trying to raise the bar for the skill level it wil=
l
> take to program in PHP8.
>
> #jmtcw
>
> -Mike
>
> P.S. Other ways to grow market share could be to:
>
> 1. Strive to support data science in a major way
> 2. Run on Single Board Computers like Raspberry Pi
> 3. Run a CLI via a single executable (i.e. package PHP runtime and PHAR
> files together so PHP scripts could be distributed without requiring a
> correctly installed version of PHP)
>
> 4. Empower developers to create cross-platform desktop, also contained
> with a single executable
> 5. Empower developers to create cross-platform mobile apps
> 6. Pursue corporate sponsors (too bad the Facebook ship already sailed.)
>
> 7. Find ways to get PHP taught in academia
> 8. Put more effort into driving adoption for PSRs like  6,7, 11, 14, 15,
> 16, 18 and in identifying and releasing more.
> 9. Strive to make PHP the best solution for AWS Lamba and other serverles=
s
> solutions
>
> 10. Embrace all of userland PHP by giving them a voice in the direction o=
f
> PHP, instead of limiting that voice to only those currently with a vote v=
ia
> phpinternals.
>
> Of course just because I included it in the list above does not mean the
> PHP team needs to pursue (any of) them.  I am just pointing out areas whe=
re
> I think PHP could see some growth if PHP pursued it.
>
> Also, any of the above would require the PHP internals community to join
> together for the common-good rather than taking no-comprised positions th=
at
> each seek one person's view of PHP perfection while blocking everything
> else.
>
> IMO anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--000000000000af30df0592b025f6--