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To: Matthew Brown <matthewmatthew@gmail.com>, Stanislav Malyshev
	<smalyshev@gmail.com>
CC: Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Reclassifying engine warnings
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 21:21:58 +0000
Message-ID: <fdb9367ab4fc40438d136bc0201820f5@proposaltech.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Reclassifying engine warnings
From: truth@proposaltech.com (Todd Ruth)

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> If we want PHP to be as easy as possible then $nullref->bar(), $foo->some=
Undefined(),
> new UndefinedClass etc shouldn=92t be exceptions either - they can just b=
e notices.


That's very different. Note that this code doesn't even generate a notice:

$x =3D null;
var_dump($x+1);

I'm joining the thread to point out another way to avoid the notice in hope=
s that
this way doesn't get deprecated or somesuch:

$temp =3D& $never_defined;   // No notice :)
$temp++;  // Happily becomes 1 if $never_defined wasn't defined
unset($temp);  // so we don't unintentionally make more changes with $temp =
later

Our code predates "??" and we use the above boilerplate in many, many place=
s, but
it isn't boilerplate enough to easily search and replace.

- Todd

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 4:01 PM, Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>
> Hi!
>
>> Javascript has treated undefined variables as a catchable exceptions sin=
ce
>> (I think?) forever.
>
> Which seems to be why I open a random Javascript file in our codebase
> and see this:
>
> var wikibase =3D wikibase || {};
> wikibase.queryService =3D wikibase.queryService || {};
> wikibase.queryService.ui =3D wikibase.queryService.ui || {};
> wikibase.queryService.ui.toolbar =3D wikibase.queryService.toolbar || {};
>
> wikibase.queryService.ui.toolbar.Actionbar =3D ...
>
> (not my code but I've seen it a lot)
> IMHO, this is language getting in a way and people writing boilerplate
> to avoid "service" that is not actually needed.
>
>> much work. This means its developers often don't improve much either, wh=
ich
>
> I don't think PHP should be a language that "builds character" by
> forcing people to do more work than it's necessary for them, in order
> for them to "improve". I think it should be as easy as possible, and if
> somebody wants to learn how the bits move, one can always pick up a good
> book or go to a Coursera course, etc.
>
> --
> Stas Malyshev
> smalyshev@gmail.com

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