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In-Reply-To: <5d6699ce.1c69fb81.e9b71.2525SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 11:37:28 -0400
Message-ID: <CAPKYkKwkyXh64fyTeZeLrZR_kXQ9w9d=skFmqcdWpk=z0HSMxQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mark Randall <markyr@gmail.com>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000604f0b05912f2bc6"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Reclassifying engine warnings
From: chasepeeler@gmail.com (Chase Peeler)

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On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 11:12 AM Mark Randall <markyr@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 28/08/2019 15:54, Chase Peeler wrote:
> > Bottom line is that we live with the not-so-good stuff so that we can
> focus
> > on adding new great stuff. The not-so-good stuff isn't holding us back,
> and
> > trying to fix things like undeclared variables would have absolutely ZERO
> > positive effect on our business, which uses this application every day.
>
> This is a classic case of technical debt. It might not bite you in the
> ass today, tomorrow, or next week, but it will inevitably bite you in
> the ass at some point, and the longer it's left, the more it's going to
> hurt when that time comes.
>

Yes, it is. However, it's technical debt that is no longer growing. We make
payments on it when we can, but, the majority of our limited resources are
focused on building new things, we a careful focus on minimizing technical
debt as much as possible (I don't think it's possible to totally avoid it).



> Don't build your business on a foundation of eggshells and then complain
> when something comes along that makes those eggshells crumble.
>
> I think our foundation is a bit stronger than that, but, I'll go with the
analogy:

All I'm asking is that we don't purposely try and break those eggshells if
it isn't necessary.

I'm also not the one that built it on the eggshells - I'm just the one that
is now in charge of developing the system that someone else left sitting
eggshells. I'm the one in charge of making sure our business (not a
software company, by the way) that uses that system continues to grow,
regardless of whether it's built on eggshells or diamonds.


> --
> Mark Randall
>
>
Just keep in mind that the harder the upgrade path is, the more people
there are that just won't do it. Whether they stick with an old version of
PHP forever or switch to something else entirely. If the reason the upgrade
path is so difficult is for something that the users don't even perceive as
a benefit, it's even more likely to drive them away. Tell me how this
benefits:
1) The user that already initializes their variables
2) The user that actually utilizes the fact that you don't have to
initialize your variables.

 I would say it has no benefit to the first person, but, it doesn't hurt
them either. It actually hurts the second person.

The main benefits I see from this is that it will:
1.) help people that do want to initialize their variables find places
where they forgot to do so. There are tons of tools, including most IDEs,
which will also do this.
2.) Force new developers to conform to what some people view as a best
practice
3.) Allow those that want to make PHP a more strict and less forgiving
language to cram that down the throat of all of the users that don't want
to see that.


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> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
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>
>

-- 
Chase Peeler
chasepeeler@gmail.com

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