Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:106732
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAF+90c9Kc6m_bv=aJxbD3-RmnNXXLqv6mPjHp7U7qxX_ck27qw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJHtznyadHb5_RgjddnPiyeWXtLQyp2CDK=ix=BiEd+DEUHqLg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAF+90c_94zAj-7XW+=YtZ2VsZEshd4DvNY8_17PyiBXvYR1gdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJHtznw5wOTMA-BUO6hOARxSie75+PwccSocVapHi4k02Z+x0A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPKYkKzc37d52ZjHy0ht6Oc_HgoBq4+DandNW1Hk-+x5NnUS7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPKYkKwhUmq40yGta3+ERfcDOOrkPi5Db6-i7pPMRmV4CrQRTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <7ddbae5c-7451-4094-8b32-19676128054b@thelounge.net> <CAPKYkKyYvqW9Hm-nae0CXJ98XxRzt7XRpe_+FzeqiJME3K4jug@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPKYkKw5vxgeM+vq_z9YhNYEMuPodCjfGNv6BRFS+bg0BG-Q0w@mail.gmail.com> <CAOkcCt_xsP1AOwB0-nuY4_qwxSc3h8mns_Yax9UnrLzFCN-m+g@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOkcCt_xsP1AOwB0-nuY4_qwxSc3h8mns_Yax9UnrLzFCN-m+g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 10:27:26 -0400
Message-ID: <CAPKYkKxAkowF_H9gDZg2pDVdUyftJz0b2LAE08jW8jjA6Nq-uw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Gert <gertp93@gmail.com>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d99d6a05912e3029"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Reclassifying engine warnings
From: chasepeeler@gmail.com (Chase Peeler)

--000000000000d99d6a05912e3029
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 10:20 AM Gert <gertp93@gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe i'm misunderstanding something here, but what does turning
> notices into deprecations achieve? Because if you have deprecation
> notices being logged then it shouldn't be extra work to log
> notices/warnings as well right?
>
> Notices include a lot more than just undeclared variables. Turning them on
in our environment would pretty much make the logs unusable for any on the
spot checking for issues. They would only be useful if we were trying to
parse out specific errors, and, they would be HUGE. Each web server
generates about 5-10 megs of logs in a day. Our CLI servers (which runs
beanstalkd jobs) generates about 80-100 megs of logs in a day. That's
without notices turned on.


> On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 at 16:16, Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well, one reason I was so vocal about short tags wasn't a love for short
> > tags themselves. It wasn't even to prevent the detrimental effects of
> > removing them. Honestly, the 2nd RFC wasn't a horrible option. It was
> more
> > about the precedent that it set - pushing huge BC breaks on the users
> (most
> > of which are voiceless in the process, because they aren't involved in
> the
> > community at all, most not really aware there is anything to be involved
> > with) with little, if any, positive gain.
> >
> > Let's see how this plays out a bit longer. It's too early to tell if
> it's a
> > dying attempt to keep pushing those type of changes, which are destined
> to
> > be rejected, or, evidence that we are still in danger of having such a
> > precedent set.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 10:11 AM Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:55 AM Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Am 28.08.19 um 15:48 schrieb Chase Peeler:
> > >> > If it is still done, then I think a deprecation path is a must. As
> > >> > mentioned earlier, this doesn't necessarily mean E_DEPRECATION
> messages
> > >> -
> > >> > warnings will work too. The key is that error logs with more urgency
> > >> than
> > >> > notices are created that users can use to track down and fix issues.
> > >>
> > >> hell, there are notices for at least a decade
> > >>
> > >> error_log = "/var/log/php_error.log"
> > >> error_reporting = E_ALL
> > >> display_errors = 1
> > >>
> > >> this is my development *as well* production config on every machine
> > >> since 16 years now and every warning/notice get fixed because every 30
> > >> minutes the errorlog get mailed to every developer and admin
> > >>
> > >> turn logging on and start cleanup what you would have had a decade
> time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Am I the only one getting tired of people telling me how I need to
> operate
> > > just like they do? Everyone's circumstances are different. Just because
> > > something is easy for you, or works well for you, doesn't mean it's
> easy or
> > > even feasible for someone else. I've learned it's useless to try to
> explain
> > > how my situation might not be exactly like everyone else's, so I'm not
> > > going to waste the time doing it again.
> > >
> > > Why can't anyone see that taking on these myopic "My situation is the
> only
> > > valid situation" views are going to kill this language.
> > >
> > > "I always initialize my variables, so, it's no big deal if everyone
> else
> > > is forced to do so."
> > > "I was able to find and replace all the short tags in my code in 5
> > > minutes, so it should be easy for everyone else to do as well."
> > > "We fix every single notice within 30 minutes of it popping up in a
> log.
> > > You should be able to do that as well."
> > > etc. etc. etc.
> > >
> > > Also, if you are going to try and tell me how I should my job, at least
> > > have the guts to reply to the entire list instead of sending it to me
> in a
> > > private reply. I'm obviously not afraid to turn around to make your
> reply
> > > public, so it'll save everyone a bit of time.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chase Peeler
> > > chasepeeler@gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chase Peeler
> > chasepeeler@gmail.com
>


-- 
Chase Peeler
chasepeeler@gmail.com

--000000000000d99d6a05912e3029--