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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 10:26:15 +0300
Message-ID: <CAFLRTJ-7wG11vox3uKgH_maFXep75LK160m4SVX5WfqDv-1qMw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andi Gutmans <andigutmans@gmail.com>
Cc: Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>, PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] P++: FAQ
From: mtkocak@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Midori_Ko=C3=A7ak?=)

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+1

On Sun, 11 Aug 2019, 07:32 Andi Gutmans, <andigutmans@gmail.com> wrote:

> I must admit that the first time I read Zeev=E2=80=99s email I got anxiou=
s... but
> it is frustrating that PHP has a WAY better runtime than Python and most
> other dynamic languages yet is falling out of fashion. It=E2=80=99s stran=
ge given
> how much better it actually runs (really being unbiased here). One reason
> is security perception (which is BS but perception matters) and the secon=
d
> is arguably some of the historic baggage which makes some folks feel PHP =
is
> hard to master without a manual (we have the best manual).
>
> So many times I have thought =E2=80=9Cis it time to just take an axe and =
simplify
> it and do a cleanup?=E2=80=9D. I actually don=E2=80=99t think we lack man=
y features but
> rather lots of stuff I would dump like references, array(), global
> namespace for functions(?), type juggling in areas where we should be
> stricter, etc... I actually think that having a p++ is risky but it is an
> opportunity. I think it=E2=80=99s mostly be an opportunity if we=E2=80=99=
d be careful about
> feature bloat and try and be really aggressive about removing things and
> cleaning up. We potentially would get the significant benefits of our
> runtime but with a cleaner language. Will non-PHP appreciate it? maybe,
> maybe not... I actually do think there=E2=80=99s value of a different bra=
nd just
> because of the BS perception issues...
>
> Andi
>
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>
> Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 12:54 PM
> To: Internals
> Subject: [PHP-DEV] P++: FAQ
>
> During the discussion of the P++ proposal (
> https://externals.io/message/106453), it became painfully clear that this
> idea did little, so far, to bring peace to the galaxy.
>
> However, based on a lot of the feedback, both on internals@ and elsewhere
> -
> it seems that a lot of people simply didn't really understand what this
> idea was actually proposing to do. I'll take the blame for that - by not
> making the idea sufficiently clear.
>
> I went on and create an FAQ, that attempts to address many of the questio=
ns
> and common misconceptions that repeatedly came up.
>
> It's available here: https://wiki.php.net/pplusplus/faq
>
> Before you read it, I want to stress that this is an attempt to
> provide *everyone
> with a good deal, and nobody with a raw deal. *It doesn't mean it's
> successful at that (although I think it is) - but the motivation is clean
> and positive. If & when you read this FAQ, please try to read it without
> any preconceived notions.
>
> If there are additional questions that you think are missing, please let =
me
> know - or better yet, if you're up for constructively adding them - go
> ahead and do that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zeev
>

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