Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:106534 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 98523 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2019 05:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-pl1-f170.google.com) (209.85.214.170) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 11 Aug 2019 05:48:55 -0000 Received: by mail-pl1-f170.google.com with SMTP id w24so46544617plp.2 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 20:16:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=M3PyKRzLxzvNi8XI77mx849g+SIyIAPuRlzWE/udV0g=; b=crr3tiKusaIY4AP9ElCkXPuseoRWue+KMXU50ZwxRYJQr8cGQ44xP2vgFJ2ttpCtYy KaKvRU/d2by1gcOjPet1lp8vwtr15nPne7Y2W56ddHiuAu6HlaNjEWqkrG+ku7NkKlEb hM9Ca8jb6e+U3GpeUx7+xvoC3oEDRkejIZizli2TIpDBoSFKkcDGA0C8aVKPPJ6YEClG o5iF7f6C5Jwe9YYlC7FauY8Ap9eHJvIYoJgXK4StYsPvkYgNDPSuyU0gAWviKdwVvRjQ ARaZBWOx+RspZHbEOz0ByEW3mZkY8BI2+8MVenER3T00sZxe8+ou4ZgTyc1zn9w2Lbdm jt3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 20:16:41 -0700 (PDT) To: Larry Garfield , Steffen via internals References: <71581e93-e38a-47b2-9d89-e9ed5850511a@www.fastmail.com> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=smalyshev@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQMuBE9mqaARCACFSqcGmNunkjQQu3X+yXnTmFeEkvM4JXZTOBdR8aEevNGmmFEfyvjaDjWi 9hcwp4E/lYtC+P7VsVjM1OSX9eq0jC/lGL0ZyRXek+mNy0n5H1NSuTpf9Y18LMqhc4G+RU+L cNiZ9K0DJuOOvNLPxW7OHZguxb3wdKPXNVa2jyRfJAKm2uaJJMT1mTmFT9a0Q8SKr+mUrrJk uG0H2o6SzrKt8Wwoint1eh67zVsJaJtQFchnEZnlawIcqP2yC4nLGR3MkubowxoEBYCZet18 aHVVRbvpG2Qtob8Lu5xrsGbmXymTkHTdpvkfcJFADa8MzOL90zOxXwbGfbIZOlh5En8jAQCX lfnx2eQL3BSW/6XANa51dbWiEp1d1BAkpGKtZvlk0Qf+M9WAi+9aXMe3xP5krxtgnRNUf2WN 6Zdy2MxL1RRJCFbytLhl0ronC49BsGYVGshdEH8xhBbiIOJKuVZ/DTl9bEm7P9c7CC7iJyVC khUAhouH6xzZQNLR+RU+QebYzXypVfl99Qk7EdMmr/WAZCHLuvanyqepC5EBsa3VnAfQemSN oBeGBKWWLiOsPjvS72+y1z4RUMAfXHn4l/sFMt8zt7/74AmJPwZquV41p4mPO12V4+xPyc6R sB84sfsk2QVivU8w8AkvGQeYjXoz7Iwao95+fWteVzZ36KRQvUckP8pGjHlDXnHxJ0HI1I/k OBZSjwRwUf0dd73y6erPhbLk+gf+NdI3H9KGJBzG5/rVyWKwUeQ9d5ud4jTJRkQGvAP5pg76 vEa9dogbpe4W5Z+0BfbiJSnQmQWSHiZddj/t33ptbup44Ck6ZTgdlmFYMLF1hR47PIZTDKER EuKYGci/vq8snZvEJP9YCw/TtiHcMdrMKcY/+Lp8lQO0GHLPB9glVhnC0db6l1Xpg1CMI8/R ozBMcij30EgATggC/y2zbiqAFoS9FN9nXPbe4phStqABEyeZ+nXudt7PUYTjVgcrqo8bHZCi sBobWC7OnKyUzxVxzUeuPkIfmZuzkLaMw2McQdvwwsNvQ0DzaLP30c1Xsm/7EIYJcOWpzlVJ 5QrdmE0/BbQyU3RhbmlzbGF2IE1hbHlzaGV2IChQSFAga2V5KSA8c21hbHlzaGV2QGdtYWls LmNvbT6IegQTEQgAIgUCT2aqtAIbAwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQL3lW vF2gS12XMwD9HuRIolSwIK77u8EY461y2u6sbX36n5/uo/LDQuxoi3sA/0MvpnvzOhv9Iufv vsZEj3E7i3h+iD5648YMwfTFCij+uQINBE9mqaAQCADfZPMpjZkkGZj3BY/7ApoLq4mwqzbh +CpLXwNn20tFNvSXfb8RdeXvVEb7Scx+W9qYpiaun2iXJgCVH8fgpZpR856ulT1q6uCG++CX ubEvip/eJkZl93/84h04KQJwsgOrAh0Om3OePRn8Pr+++0LNS0EL8uX/YHeTOGOnnmTqYTey SBVFdov6L4mepddfjekicKQqhL7mZh/xuq29JijT0uNNX8v4vDWQDu5dlAcdd+uB3gcXMD/P ginD11zp+6wtrWCm/+yBqpvDwXQX5PGUnwvbRfl7Ay3MmwmoXiecZMg0dwTSc7e0lhB4HGRH ZdBMJB4rHUVGdzqujK/ctOvrAAMFB/0Utb76Qe6sCMlHxVAmeE/fbo7Pi05btZ/x01r67dHf aMSP0riCKJ7M0OW+jAXtu9+z/BVnYisW67WWfxl2cS5tZDgiHgJARXWUOO72+sScHP8KQmTl 1z16gyKbwY3SmyBkwcpOL35nhUWNLy93syPoY6sZUTikr2bZYukHDQ33XBPs4e6MbWKfsa9q aVmnlOF3k5UqChjutfHaEa4Q7VP4wBIpphHBi9MI16oJIzzBPbGl2uoedjwiZ6QeQZnSuOVY ZxU2d3lRA8PrtfFN1VSlpEm/VcAvtieHUYWHN0wOu+cp3Slr5XJVNjTjJhl28SlinMME54mK AGf2Ldr/dRwXiGEEGBEIAAkFAk9mqaACGwwACgkQL3lWvF2gS126EQD/VVd3FgjLKglClRQP zdfU847tqDK4zJjbmRv5vLLwoE0A+wbrQs7jVGU3NrS0AIl5vUmewpp2BKzSkepy23nWmejw Message-ID: <34129f1a-5032-8b87-ee5c-d6dbad5ec9e7@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 20:16:40 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <71581e93-e38a-47b2-9d89-e9ed5850511a@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] P++: FAQ From: smalyshev@gmail.com (Stanislav Malyshev) Hi! > Finally, Zeev, you mention the "PHP philosophy" of being a dynamic > language. While that may well be your philosophy, and you have every > right to have it, that has not been the "PHP philosophy" for years, > as seen by all of the type "stuff" that's been successfully added to > the language and gone into widespread use. PHP doesn't have a > coherent philosophy. It is proudly directionless, steered by whoever > happens to be writing code this week. A few years back, Anthony I don't think that's the case, moreover, I don't think project can exist and bring coherent results useful to the outside world this way. Of course, we do not have "mission statement", but those formal committee-designed ones are a useless baloney in about 99.999% of cases I've seen. There are, however, certain ideas that underly what is and what isn't PHP and why people use PHP and not some other language, and why certain features are done in certain way. Dynamic language has been one of them, but not only. Pragmatism - preference for solutions that deliver maximum value for the users to solutions that adhere to one or another kind of abstract conceptual framework - is another. Low barrier of entry and embracing users not requiring strong theoretical background and extensive training to be productive is another. Paving the walkways and serving the common use case is another. Borrowing concepts proven to be successful is another. There could be a lot of things, and the list would probably differ from person to person, but I am pretty sure "directionless" is not how you properly describe it. > Rightly or wrongly, to speak of "PHP philosophy" as a thing one can > actually reference is simply not possible. I think not only is it possible, it is necessary. I don't think a project can exist as a hodgepodge of code that people randomly graft on whatever they happened to like in the moment. Maybe we have no official Constitution document, but I think we still have some guiding principles that PHP have been following over the years of its history. It doesn't mean everything we have done we have to repeat forever again. Environment changes, people change, community needs change, and something we rejected 10 years ago we may embrace now. That's ok, but this is not the same as being directionless. -- Stas Malyshev smalyshev@gmail.com