Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:106530 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 2958 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2019 18:41:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.gna.ch) (62.12.172.119) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 10 Aug 2019 18:41:05 -0000 Received: from [10.0.1.55] (77-56-180-37.dclient.hispeed.ch [77.56.180.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by darkcity.gna.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0CA9021A46 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:08:45 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 18:08:45 +0200 References: <5d4e9057.1c69fb81.bdf14.8d8fSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> To: PHP internals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: P++: FAQ From: cschneid@cschneid.com (Christian Schneider) Am 10.08.2019 um 17:04 schrieb Rasmus Lerdorf : > On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 5:37 AM Andrea Faulds wrote: >=20 >> As the person who initially proposed and implemented strict_types, I >> think this is heading in the wrong direction. Perhaps that directive = was >> a mistake, if it will lead to so many attempts inspired by it to >> fragment the language, including this one. Personally, I don't = actually >> want a language like C++ or Java. PHP's flexibility is great, and I >> think splitting the language means going in a direction where you are >> forced to have everything be strict or nothing be. PHP++ sounds like >> Hack, but in mainline. I think it'll end up a mess in the long term. I very much agree with this. I see strict_types as an attempt to cater to both factions but if it is = used as a precedent to all kind of language fragmentation proposals then = I'm regretting it. > Yes, I would suspect it would get a bit weird having a AnythingGoes > vs. NothingGoes barrier in the code like that. Forcing a balance, even > if sometimes the arguments get rather heated (and they were just as > heated, if not more so 20+ years ago), keeps everyone on the same > page and working on the same code-base without the us vs. them > situation that is bound to creep in. I do not believe in the language mode/version model but instead agree = that trying to get on the same page is worth some discussions. I'm just a bit surprised and disappointed that the discussions recently = got so out of hand. There is a very vocal minority right now asking for BC breaking language = changes who IMHO are a bit too quick dismissing opinions of very = distinguished PHP developers. I think there should be some sort of = respectful meritocracy (no, I'm not asking to introduce a formal system = based on karma or something like that), minimally meaning: Listening to = people with years of experience in PHP development and history. It strikes me as odd that new features are often marketed with "if you = don't need it, don't use it" but the same people then ask for = deprecation / removal of features they personally don't use. Even if the = advantages of the removal is minor. I'm accepting a lot of complications in the PHP core for features I = don't use already, but I'd expect the same respect for different (e.g. = more dynamic) coding styles and older code bases. Language fragmentation is not a sustainable solution, we do not want a = Python2 vs. Python3 scenario. - Chris