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Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 00:55:29 +0300
Message-ID: <CAFLRTJ-kCxAOwnmbOLP5YjGmjbYx-bzRd-BWVG-_UJ6UM4_Wdg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>
Cc: Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000363214058fb63c99"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] P++: FAQ
From: mtkocak@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Midori_Ko=C3=A7ak?=)

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I do completely agree with this and would like to be part of it. I am
really frustrated to see old developers shrug every time I talk about php.
I am enthusiastic about our language, the language I started coding with
and the language that evolved in years while I was learning it.

2 years ago, while I was preparing for facebook whiteboard interview for 6
months (I was not hired, I don't know what was the reason is.) I was
shocked to see while learning built in array and string functions naming
and parameter order. While we are advocating using coding standards,
forcing people to use PHP-FIG with different versions and advices, our
language does not have the same consistency, I know that was a must for
backwards compatibility with C, but makes me feel bad about the things I am
advocating for years.

Also, it is almost impossible for a newcomer to get into the internals. I
know that PHP source code is robust, evolved in many years to a position
that powers almost all of the internet but adding a new feature (which I
attempted once) requires a great C skill and familiarity with codebase
because of not having comments or source code documentation other than
internals book. (I also cannot say my attempts were welcomed with
happiness, which resulted me to lose my motivation, thankfully NCAO was
implemented by nikita popov)

I would really would be happy to see P++ to be built with some modern
compiled language like Rust and have nice guidelines and techniques to add
new features including new programming concepts. P++ should be the real
programming language of the future, should welcome newcomers, be easy to
use without bureaucracy of Java, nor encouraging spaghetti like code in
Python. I think PHP's secret is this, highly versatile, similar to a swiss
army knife, while other languages rant about their modernity and
superiority, it allows us to survive in the middle of the winter in a
forest under the storms. Even it is slow sometimes nor it is not perfect,
it's like me, it learns, it evolves, not perfect but it's the most used
language of the internet at the end.

From a humanitarian perspective, we have a huge potential here to create
most diverse, most inclusive, most welcoming language and programming
culture in the times that women and minorities leave the industry because
of the unneeded ego atmosphere.

From a technical perspective, P++ can be the language of the future and
bring peace to the galaxy.

Cheers,
Midori




On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 at 22:54, Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net> wrote:

> During the discussion of the P++ proposal (
> https://externals.io/message/106453), it became painfully clear that this
> idea did little, so far, to bring peace to the galaxy.
>
> However, based on a lot of the feedback, both on internals@ and elsewhere
> -
> it seems that a lot of people simply didn't really understand what this
> idea was actually proposing to do.  I'll take the blame for that - by not
> making the idea sufficiently clear.
>
> I went on and create an FAQ, that attempts to address many of the questions
> and common misconceptions that repeatedly came up.
>
> It's available here:  https://wiki.php.net/pplusplus/faq
>
> Before you read it, I want to stress that this is an attempt to
> provide *everyone
> with a good deal, and nobody with a raw deal.  *It doesn't mean it's
> successful at that (although I think it is) - but the motivation is clean
> and positive.  If & when you read this FAQ, please try to read it without
> any preconceived notions.
>
> If there are additional questions that you think are missing, please let me
> know - or better yet, if you're up for constructively adding them - go
> ahead and do that.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zeev
>

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