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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 20:44:45 +0300
Message-ID: <CAJHtznwU+iRRKnKwFgiXww9gn99xQuJYLhRoxT_0OF1fx34qJA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com>
Cc: "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Bringing Peace to the Galaxy
From: vsuraski@gmail.com (Zeev Suraski)

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On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 7:44 PM Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 at 17:10, Zeev Suraski <vsuraski@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > we=E2=80=99re discussing whether it makes sense to introduce a sister l=
anguage
> to PHP.
>
> Zeev also wrote:
> > It will take no additional resources,
>
> First, those two statements are mutually exclusive.
>

Before I move on, I have to say I admire your level of confidence.  I can
only dream of having something even remotely close.

You're talking to a person that co-wrote the PHP engine, twice, that led
parts of a 3rd engine rewrite, that helped lead (although at a hands-off
manner) a 4th engine rewrite, that wrote OPcache, and a bunch of other
things - and yet you still feel confident to tell me that I have no idea
what I'm talking - when talking about precisely that.

If I were in your place, I'd be wondering "am I missing something?" and
probably try to ask some clarifying questions before telling that other guy
that he's clueless and/or lying.  Even if I disagreed with that person on
virtually everything.

With that out of the way - the very short version is that there's nothing
mutually exclusive about these statements.  In fact, saying that means that
you really do not understand what the idea is.  There could be several
reasons for that - but I'm willing to take the blame as perhaps I didn't
make it entirely clear.  I'll try to remedy that separately from this email=
.

Second, the idea of keeping PHP as it currently is, and pushing people
> who want to evolve the language out from core PHP to make their own
> language, is effectively telling those people to make a fork of the
> project.
>

 This is another illustration, an even clearer one - that you simply don't
understand what the idea is at any meaningful level.  Here too - I'll take
the blame.  I'm going to try and fix that.

This is not an appropriate thing to suggest.
>
> Please stop trying to regain control of the PHP project either through
> direct threats or through telling people that they should fork off the
> project if they want to evolve PHP.
>
> I strongly feel the conversations you are provoking on internals are
> not productive or healthy for the project.
>

Dan, don't get this the wrong way, but if anybody is behaving
inappropriately, that would be you.  You repeatedly talk to me in a
condescending (text) tone, you're virtually always interpreting my words in
the most negative and malicious way possible (and beyond), and you don't
shy away from doing that publicly.  You're being repeatedly disrespectful.

Adding

> cheers

at the end does not change that..

I don't address you in such a disrespectful manner, neither should you.
Please stop.

Zeev

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