Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:106442
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAFPFaML19B_RehrUQLEy_oFae-H5r3+BpUGg=GF1js83cJpJqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOWwgpn=9HZ8j2xMn-ENwZ5caAO4VRFJ5MLk0f=GLhjzHO7Czw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPKYkKw2b1pgRHMJSF3Kk+w55hch6yu3WdyEC0yAe0Z7Hh=8tA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1759114.DMe9nKvMbn@mcmic-probook> <62c73b8f-df41-43c2-bb51-ceeaf607cacf@Spark>
 <CAJHtzny-v=AEh3U3t=xTakmjzwnkLS1FAwWsZ2+7_iWrmaHVJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPKYkKx5GBdYRofiRvfYCqSO80wxdAqN1mC6keU3LWWLPT-UJg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAfnsFXoibPNAK3JyTZmp21-6HibW4TQoPFxWG6miiE_tFpApQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAL0xaBFUiNAPCnz=rAi8w95SqWP0ZrMZQOkSt3TQaf6=dg+tVQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAL0xaBFUiNAPCnz=rAi8w95SqWP0ZrMZQOkSt3TQaf6=dg+tVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 16:42:30 +0100
Message-ID: <CALKiJKpJSfub2HdnBMp1ft-VQxLg8W9BEQsnsPJLx6kca3yi-g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000795a66058f9ce8fd"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecate PHP's short open tags, again
From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Collins)

--000000000000795a66058f9ce8fd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 at 16:18, Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>
wrote:

> BC is great, but you need to pull the cord at some point. And the whole
> short tag back and forth, with deprecation warning and stuff, has been
> around for last half a decade. It is time to accept that it needs to go
>


That's like saying from now on we should mandate PSR-2 indenting style in
the compiler, to stop people arguing about code formatting. Just because
people keep saying something, doesn't make it right.



> If the old guard starts to push back as much as I have seen here, we are
> going to lose momentum as a community and have people not willing to work
> on PHP as much.
>


I feel like the opposite: if people volunteering their time find that all
their energy is spent on pointless arguments about removing working
features, and none of it is spent on actually innovating the language,
they'll spend it somewhere else.



> Long story short - indecision is not an option.



Here's a decision for you then: short tags are fine how they are, and we
can stop wasting energy talking about them and get on with doing something
that actually benefits the language. That's not indecision, that's a
concrete position we could take to prioritise our efforts on something more
productive.


The previous RFC has
> passed. Everyone involved, I hope, understands that yes, there will be
> stuff going wrong for some users who are careless and/or ignorant and live
> under a rock. Can we really do anything about that?



Yes. Yes, we can. We can do what's proposed in the v2 RFC, or we can
reverse our decision. An RFC passing isn't a pact with the devil.



> Let's look into the future, use a reasonable amount of caution and/or
> deprecation notice periods, but please stop trying to block features
>


What is the feature being blocked if we leave short tags in PHP? If such a
feature existed, I would understand your frustration - but if it did, the
RFC could make the case for why adding that new feature was worth the pain
caused by removing the old feature. Since there is no such feature, there
is no such justification in the RFC, which is why it's so controversial.

Regards,
-- 
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]

--000000000000795a66058f9ce8fd--