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To: Dan Ackroyd <Danack@basereality.com>
Cc: internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 12:59:35 -0700
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Explicit call-site send-by-ref syntax
From: smalyshev@gmail.com (Stanislav Malyshev)

Hi!

> This is why trying to force RFC authors to respond to every point is
> such a bad idea.

You try to absurdize the position by taking it to unreasonable absolute.
Nobody asks anybody to respond to literally *every* point, no matter how
minor. Responding on major objections, however, is expected.

> It allows filibustering of RFCs by having people who are opposed to
> the RFC by bringing up voluminous complaints. This is described nicely
> in a video called "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People
> (And You Can Too)" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52kFL8zVoM which
> I recommend everyone watch.

It is kinda insulting to be called "poisonous" because I try to argue my
position and explain my argument. I guess I should limit myself to "this
RFC sucks #noway" and we can move our discussions to Twitter.

But then I notice there's no objection to the quality of my argument.
Only that's it too hard to read it, apparently, because it requires
effort. I am astonished that this is a serious complaint...

> Zeev, both you and Stas seem to be making lots of noise due to some
> RFCs having been passed despite your objections. The whole reason
> voting for RFCs was introduced was so that progress could be made even
> when some community members objected to an RFC.

Again, there's a difference between majority and minority disagreeing
and plainly ignoring major objections that will have large detrimental
effect on the user base (which BTW can not vote). Sure, a shiny syntax
addition could be voted in while most of the voters not realizing
subtler problems it would bring - how is it a good thing?
Voting is only a part of the RFC process. It we have vote and no
discussion, that turns into popularity contest and political game, which
is no way to run a technical project. Technical discussion is a vital
part of the RFC process.

> If you want to change how the RFC process happens, to have a "long
> term stability committee" or something similar, please raise an RFC
> for it. But just making noise and threats on this list is completely
> non-productive.

Calling other person's arguments "noise" kinda describes how seriously
you intend to treat them.
-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalyshev@gmail.com