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In-Reply-To: <BL0PR02MB558843F6D08933867AF1EC6CACDC0@BL0PR02MB5588.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:10:12 -0600
Message-ID: <CAFMT4NqaST9Jm7BYE-UKrVnB0rNhOY0jNi-_b5YJVY15Mo96Jg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>
Cc: Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>, internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008e4375058ee76841"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Explicit call-site send-by-ref syntax
From: morrison.levi@gmail.com (Levi Morrison)

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On Mon, Jul 29, 2019, 10:55 PM Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:

>
>
> > I'm sorry Stas, but I will not be reading your mails in the future. I
> think you mean
> > well and do raise legitimate points, but I have noticed over a long
> period of time
> > that I find arguing with you to be extremely mentally exhaustive, while
> > ultimately deriving very little actionable benefit from these
> discussions. You just
> > rub me entirely the wrong way. That's ultimately my own personal issue,
> but I
> > don't think I can avoid acting on it any longer. I hope your position is
> sufficiently
> > well-represented by other people.
>
>
> Nikita,
>
> I'm sorry, but that is completely unacceptable.  I'm another person with
> whom you used this approach in practice (and said as much, twice), even if
> you didn't go quite as far as saying that it will be your ongoing policy
> (and ignored my feedback on this).  While disregarding a person's opinion
> (especially one that's a core contributor) is unacceptable by itself - it's
> even worse since claiming that "others will represent the position" is
> playing make-belief.  The reality (based on track record) is that you very
> much tend to simply ignore strong & well-reasoned opposition to your
> proposals.  This has no place on internals.
>
> If you can't thoroughly discuss the merits and issues of your proposals,
> don't propose.  Better yet - if you think that a proposal coming from you
> is likely to result in a discussion that will mentally exhaust you - don't
> propose it.  It probably means it's far outside consensus and has no place
> in PHP.
>
> Regards,
>
> Zeev
>

Both Zeev and Stas have long histories  of poor behaviour, so for Zeev to
call out Nikita for choosing to ignore Stas is... funny.

I think ignoring people is totally acceptable behaviour on this list. May I
remind you that in the not distant past this list was called a toxic
kindergarten and other similar names by former and current contributors?
Simce we have little policy on ejecting toxic contributors, ignoring people
is the only way to keep sanity.



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