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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:49:25 -0400
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To: Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>
Cc: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>, Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Draft: Comprehensions
From: chasepeeler@gmail.com (Chase Peeler)

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On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 4:55 AM Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Den s=C3=B8n. 10. mar. 2019 kl. 23.45 skrev Larry Garfield <
> larry@garfieldtech.com>:
> >
> > Hello, peoples.  I know it's been discussed once or twice before on the
> list, many years ago, but not recently.  I therefore feel OK putting fort=
h
> the following draft proposal for Comprehensions, aka "compact generators"=
,
> in PHP:
> >
> > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/comprehensions
>
> While I think believe the RFC has great intentions, I am not a fan by
> any means to introduce convoluted syntaxes like this into PHP, I think
> it is rather hard to read vs the gain of saving a few key strokes. I
> think that both the shorthand closures and this makes PHP code
> potentially even harder to read and I would prefer we did not add such
> essential sugar where you need to understand the semantics very well
> to understand what a piece of foreign code may do, in what order (like
> the no yield example given).
>
> One more thing that kinda "annoys" me / what I base my above statement
> on is; when reading some of the example is that the code examples
> given, as in the code inside a Comprehension does not look very
> PHP-ish besides the $-sigil and I do not like the idea of having "two"
> syntaxes for PHP where one is only available in a very narrow-,
> specific context and I feel it would be prone to potential errors.
>
> Everything looks weird and "non-phpish" when it's new. OO constructs
weren't PHP-ish at first, because PHP didn't originally support OO. Imagine
"foreach" didn't exist in PHP and we were still using
while(list($key,$value) =3D each($arr)) syntax.

I agree that some of the examples are a bit hard to read and understand -
but that's only because we haven't been exposed to them.

This isn't meant as an endorsement of the proposal. I just don't think the
fact that it adds something different than what we are used to is a good
justification for not supporting it. As a non-voting userland developer,
I'm personally ambivalent. They seem cool, and I'm sure I'll use them, but
it won't be a big deal if they aren't added.


> Another thing that has been mentioned by multiple people now is the
> for-vs-foreach; If it is a foreach, which you mention in the RFC then
> it should be so, not for. A little background on where I am coming
> from here; I think it is great that we look at other languages and
> technologies when designing PHP and adding more features the language,
> however while I do believe it is an important point to keep cross
> language consistency, I do think that consistency with PHP itself is
> more important, which I believe too, is the reason for the expression
> for using foreach in this context comes from (not only from my PoV).
>
> I was originally going to say I agreed with this position, but, after
thinking about it, I've changed my mind. A "for" loop is just a method of
specifying the keys that you are iterating over. Since you aren't
specifying the keys inside a comprehension, the traditional "for" loop
doesn't really exist. I'd suggest supporting both keywords, though.


> --
> regards,
>
> Kalle Sommer Nielsen
> kalle@php.net
>
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> --
-- Chase
chasepeeler@gmail.com

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