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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 15:22:31 +0100
Message-ID: <CAOwTYAswpD50Wp2VCpfugFx9b_rTUwZd7hWgsfTjoec_jBDZgA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>
Cc: Nicolas Grekas <nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com>, Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>, 
	Rowan Collins <rowan.collins@gmail.com>, Internals <internals@lists.php.net>, 
	Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT
From: krakjoe@gmail.com (Joe Watkins)

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Morning all,

This idea of an experimental feature as complex as a JIT is dangerous. It
is not finished, and dmitry has said he's not willing to put more time into
until it's merged. That's his prerogative, and it is ours to say that we
don't want unfinished software that only one or two people really
understand in PHP. All of the rest of internals need all of the time
between now and PHP 8 to educate ourselves on this so that we function as
well as we do now when it comes to finding and fixing bugs, and pushing PHP
forward. Merging the JIT into 7.4 puts a brick wall in the way of progress
that none of us have the tools to climb over.

I hear the argument about wanting to test, but anyone with sufficient
expertise to test the JIT is capable of building the branch available on
github, we do not need to push out an incomplete product to the entire
world for the sake of that handful of individuals who will actually test.

I believe it is incredibly dangerous to ship 7.4 with the JIT in it's
current form, and would ask everyone to please think very carefully about
it, prior to supporting it.

Thanks
Joe


On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 at 14:34, Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>
wrote:

> =D1=87=D1=82, 14 =D1=84=D0=B5=D0=B2=D1=80. 2019 =D0=B3. =D0=B2 14:54, Nic=
olas Grekas <nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com
> >:
>
> > > [...] I think that whether or not we include it in 7.4
> > > is a tactical decision (and I'm not sure myself where I stand on it),
> > but I
> > > do think there's a reasonable case for both directions.
> > >
> >
> > If I may add some voice to Zeev's arguments, being able to play with JI=
T
> as
> > early as possible would allow the community to experiment using PHP in
> > areas where it doesn't fit right now. Having to wait 2 more years to
> > discover that maybe it's useful to build some new libraries could be a
> > waste of time at the tactical level (there are other technologies aroun=
d
> > that move fast also :) )
> >
> > Not to detract from the technical challenges of moving in this directio=
n,
> > of course.
> > Just my 2cts from a "userland" guy :)
> >
> > Nicolas
> >
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I agree with this sentiment and the general idea of shipping JIT as
> experimental in 7.4 and required to build with a configure flag.
> master for 8.0 is going to contain much more and be more unstable and not
> practical for testing what JIT can do at that point due to all other
> features and improvements going into it like additional optimizations and
> platform support.
> It will give me, as a userland developer, a platform where I can actually
> play with it early and on a stable platform. And I understand what I'm
> doing at that point.
>
> --
> Arv=C4=ABds Godjuks
>
> +371 26 851 664
> arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
> Skype: psihius
> Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius
>

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