Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:104154 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 87547 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2019 06:51:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-40136.protonmail.ch) (185.70.40.136) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2019 06:51:20 -0000 Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2019 03:32:16 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1549337539; bh=jqoBc5F0KHe4yDe7qKRPsJEUD/GoN12AvtiRrd4dQVg=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From; b=A5GTpgb0fHYniIcSmu3f4qfS37tx/phja9WLbzU7wfKmBoACMBaOH7ClAXwzmvYyP ZAkONrFJ9ln6ZthojVUsaNPuCGEUT/6VkgoL6zGlXbbaFDgZH3FohY8SAYi/jKGFSd gW3szfD6QZlx9OYm8D9wbKSQdrFVWTGn1zL55J+8= To: Andrey Andreev Cc: Levi Morrison , "internals@lists.php.net" , "php-webmaster@lists.php.net" Reply-To: azjezz Message-ID: <8LpaBr5VNhrIzI47A2lE70l5YyubY7r1FaFG0SNg4vrOB3Uu3_0myMJYkovqlf25tOeq7TAHmgohaWzuVomglt4laZPmHYOM5KHA-EIJdLU=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 2QbNVvXqZX7F9J8FTDAv0u3ryua4T0_lfklxZ8hRMzvBUxf8m8U50Gi9tVWG9V2LePU31MFOrVnxPKYLJjZPXw==:Ext:ProtonMail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=7.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on mail.protonmail.ch Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] New website for the PHP project From: azjezz@protonmail.com (azjezz) On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 2:20 AM, Andrey Andreev wro= te: > Hi, > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM azjezz azjezz@protonmail.com wrote: > > > =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Origina= l Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80= =90 > > On Monday, February 4, 2019 2:32 PM, Andrey Andreev narf@devilix.net wr= ote: > > > > > Hi, > > > I could nitpick on most of the proposed plan, but I really only wante= d > > > to reply to this: > > > > > > > > - A new home page, not a "news" page, but a page simply showing= the PHP Logo, a code example maybe and > > > > > the download link [3]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > [3] https://camo.githubusercontent.com/762e5d9fcaaa4ecf645343350a= 91929f99f452e9/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f584477675261662e706e= 67 > > > > > > I just hate those useless landing pages. > > > Yes, it looks neat and clean, but after the initial "OMG so pretty" > > > phase it just becomes annoying - noone cares about the code example > > > and I for one never know what "Get Started" means. PHP isn't some > > > consumer desktop software; nobody would just stumble upon php.net and > > > "get started" with it, whatever that means ... > > > I'm all for a modern look and all, but let's please keep the news on > > > the index page. Personally, I only go to php.net to look for the news= , > > > changelogs and to search the docs. This image suggests that I'd need > > > to do an extra click for each of those things and I'm sure I wouldn't > > > be the only one unhappy about that. > > > Cheers, > > > Andrey. > > > > The landing page is meant for the new comers to PHP, when people search= for php, the home page is the first to appear. it make sense to show a sam= ple and a straightforward button to get started with using PHP ( introducti= on, installation and tutorial ) > > There's a missing link here - who searches for "php" without prior > knowledge of what it is? Programming languages aren't buzzwords that > come up in casual conversations between people who don't already use > them. > > And how does it make sense to show a code sample? What for? The only > time I've seen isolated, meaningless code samples serve a purpose is > to look cool in movies. > > Now that you mentioned a tutorial, that's one thing I agree is useful > and missing. As a self-learner myself, 15 years ago I would've > appreciated a vetted selection of tutorials on the official website. > But why not just put a "Tutorials" link alongside "Documentation"? > > > You can see the mock up repository for what the "Getting Started" page = would look like. > > No such thing had been linked until your last reply (which was sent > after I started writing this), but that's my point exactly - you have > to look at it first in order to know what's hiding behind it and > that's counter-productive to me; I reiterate the suggestion to have a > "Tutorials" link instead. > > > if you usually visit the website for documentation, you would just type= php.net/documentation in the url bar instead of php.net or php.net/blog fo= r changelogs and articles. > > See, this is where you actually make the site harder to use. > > Today, I only type "ph" into my address bar and thanks to Firefox > hitting enter gets me to php.net, which in turn gives me everything > that I need: > > - The news are the main content and you want to put that on a separate > page, calling it "Blog". > Yes, most modern websites have a "Blog" instead of a "News" section, > but that's because at some point it became "cool" for everyone to > blog. There's no use to just naming it that when there's zero bloggin= g > going on and we have almost exclusively only release announcements. > > - The ChangeLog I get convenienty linked to from each news article > about a release (again that's all the news). So that's another thing > you're taking away from the index page, even if by accident. > > - The search bar allows me to check the manual for any function > signature, built-in class reference, etc. > Note that I said "search the manual" in my first reply, not browse > it. I've never needed to visit php.net/documentation, yet that's what > you suggest I should do. > > These things are regressions for me, not improvements. > > > In essence, I share Rowan's sentiment in that I actually quite like > the current website, but I like it because it is excellent for > everyday lookups. As long as you can keep it that way, I fully support > your effort. > I don't really care about the design, but there's plenty of other > stuff that could use some love. > > Cheers, > Andrey. > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM azjezz azjezz@protonmail.com wrote: > > > =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Origina= l Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80= =90 > > On Monday, February 4, 2019 2:32 PM, Andrey Andreev narf@devilix.net wr= ote: > > > > > Hi, > > > I could nitpick on most of the proposed plan, but I really only wante= d > > > to reply to this: > > > > > > > > - A new home page, not a "news" page, but a page simply showing= the PHP Logo, a code example maybe and > > > > > the download link [3]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > [3] https://camo.githubusercontent.com/762e5d9fcaaa4ecf645343350a= 91929f99f452e9/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f584477675261662e706e= 67 > > > > > > I just hate those useless landing pages. > > > Yes, it looks neat and clean, but after the initial "OMG so pretty" > > > phase it just becomes annoying - noone cares about the code example > > > and I for one never know what "Get Started" means. PHP isn't some > > > consumer desktop software; nobody would just stumble upon php.net and > > > "get started" with it, whatever that means ... > > > I'm all for a modern look and all, but let's please keep the news on > > > the index page. Personally, I only go to php.net to look for the news= , > > > changelogs and to search the docs. This image suggests that I'd need > > > to do an extra click for each of those things and I'm sure I wouldn't > > > be the only one unhappy about that. > > > Cheers, > > > Andrey. > > > > The landing page is meant for the new comers to PHP, when people search= for php, the home page is the first to appear. it make sense to show a sam= ple and a straightforward button to get started with using PHP ( introducti= on, installation and tutorial ) > > You can see the mock up repository for what the "Getting Started" page = would look like. > > if you usually visit the website for documentation, you would just type= php.net/documentation in the URL bar instead of php.net or php.net/blog fo= r changelogs and articles. Hello Andrey, thanks for your reply. it's really appreciated. i have asked few people and after sharing opinions, i decided its better to= update the landing page to contain almost the same resources as the curren= t website but in a different design. 1. now you can see latest releases in the home page with a link for the dow= nload and changlog. 2. events are now in the side bar as they are now in the php.net website, b= ut they also include an image ( usually the logo ) 3. the search bar is now in the top navigation menu 4. "Getting Started" link is now in the top navigation menu ( the getting s= tarted page contains introduction to php, how-to install php in different p= latforms and a simple tutorial - but i might extend the original tutorial t= hat is now found on php.net - https://secure.php.net/manual/en/tutorial.php= - as it seems more focused on how to get a web site running with php rathe= r how to use php ) 5. reference to the "blog"/"news" has been removed as the landing page is n= ow where release notes are. mock ups : https://github.com/azjezz/web-php-mock-ups screenshot : https://github.com/azjezz/web-php-mock-ups/blob/master/screens= hots/getting-started.png