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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 17:43:53 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFLRTJ8xyhwtC5=Q-VZ1MzgE4T+faB6b=D89ueBktWxP6csRug@mail.gmail.com>
To: Benjamin Morel <benjamin.morel@gmail.com>
Cc: Rowan Collins <rowan.collins@gmail.com>, Peter Kokot <peterkokot@gmail.com>, 
	Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecation ideas for PHP 8
From: mtkocak@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Midori_Ko=C3=A7ak?=)

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Totally agree with this. The new and old can exist both. We should be open
to change.

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019, 11:53 Benjamin Morel <benjamin.morel@gmail.com wrote:

> Please forgive my stubborness, too. I fail to see how WordPress supporting
> PHP versions that have been EOL for YEARS can be of any help to the
> community? These versions may have unpatched security holes, and
> encouraging users to keep using them is a disfavour to the community IMO,
> which can only delay adoption of newer versions, and lead to an even more
> painful upgrade path when you have to upgrade N versions at once. My stance
> on this is that projects written in PHP have to evolve together with the
> language, and I'm personally not surprised to have to rewrite a few things
> whenever a major PHP version is released (and I do maintain quite a number
> of projects). Let me rephrase this: actually, I would be HAPPY to rewrite
> my projects towards a more consistent PHP language.
>
> That being said, I know this opinion is a minority on this list, so let's
> put it aside for a moment.
>
> Now what prevents PHP from adding consistent function names / APIs, and
> deprecating the older ones? We can keep the old ones for 10 more years if
> you wish, but at least new PHP code can start using the "correct" ones, and
> progressively the share of PHP code out there using the old ones should
> progressively get lower over the years, up to the point where we could
> eventually decide that it's not worth keeping them. The thing is, if you
> never start, the situation will never improve.
>
> You know the proverb: The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The
> second best time is now.
>
> Ben
>
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 11:30, Rowan Collins <rowan.collins@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 07:34, Peter Kokot <peterkokot@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry, I didn't put my words correctly here. Not inconsistency.
> > > Inconsistency is a fact, yes. I've meant the incapability of doing
> > > something to fix this inconsistency. And it is becoming some sort of
> > > stubborn belief and less and less people want to fix it.
> > >
> > > The RFC: Consistent function names [1] shows the magnitude of this. I
> > > don't think every function listed there needs a change so it can be
> > > greatly reduced. But still this can be done in several years to 10
> > > years or so (measuring over the thumb).
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm sorry if I sound stubborn, but I have yet to see a reasonable answer
> to
> > the fundamental problem: the effort needed is not on the part of a few
> > volunteers changing the language, it is effort by *every single user of
> the
> > language*, rewriting *every single PHP program ever written*.
> >
> > WordPress officially supports both PHP 5.2, released 13 years ago, and
> PHP
> > 7.3, released a couple of months ago; one of their biggest challenges in
> > raising that bar is that they, too, have to persuade a community (the
> theme
> > and plugin authors) to change their code to match. That should give you
> > some idea of how long old and new names would have to exist side by side,
> > while we waited for everyone to rewrite all their code, and meanwhile,
> the
> > language would be *even more inconsistent*, because there would be extra
> > ways of writing the same thing.
> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Rowan Collins
> > [IMSoP]
> >
>

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