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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 13:30:52 -0500
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To: Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net>
Cc: Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>, Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com>, Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] JIT
From: chasepeeler@gmail.com (Chase Peeler)

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On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:04 PM Zeev Suraski <zeev@php.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:47 PM Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Without my usual Windows bias, I do believe it is a considerable fact
> > like Nikita pointed out as Windows is a first class citizen in terms
> > of operating systems we support. While PHP on Windows may not have the
> > speed that the Unix counterpart have, it is still a very important
> > development platform. Many developers develop on Windows and deploy on
> > a Unix based system, being unable to test such an important feature in
> > a development environment is also a large question mark.
> >
>
> As long as we can agree that very few actually *deploy *on Windows, I think
> we're on solid grounds.
> As the JIT implementation is likely to have at least *some* significant
> differences compared to Linux, I'm not sure what testing it on Windows
> would give you.  JIT is supposed to be entirely transparent, and the
> performance characteristics - as well as the bug patterns - are likely to
> be quite different on Linux vs. Windows, at least in many cases.
> Is it really that important to have?
>
> I'm honestly a bit perplexed by how many people here viewing Windows
> support as a must have, while at the same time I think we all agree PHP is
> very scarcely found on production Windows servers, and JIT is a
> predominantly production feature.
>
> I'm personally interested in taking a look at it (and I'm certain
> > Anatol does too), but simply dismissing is a no-go for me.
>
>
> It'd be interesting to evaluate the cost associated with supporting
> Windows.  Bare in mind, we're proposing to vote on this as a production
> feature for PHP 8 - which realistically means almost two years from now *at
> the earliest*.  I'm sure we'd have Windows support a lot sooner than that
> if we decide that it's a must have.  I agree with Nikita that the key
> question is in fact, do we or do we not want to introduce JIT in - with the
> main question being the maintenance cost.  Let's tackle this question
> first, otherwise - why send Dmitry (and maybe others) for doing more work
> (Windows support) if we are likely to flush it all down the toilet?
>
> Maybe we're the only ones, but we run production PHP on Windows. I have no
issues with the idea of not initially having support for Windows. I can
probably even live with never having support for Windows - provided that we
don't find ourselves in a situation like Nikita mentioned where features
start getting developed in PHP instead of C and require JIT in order to
function.


> I think that if we reach the conclusion that Windows support is a must, we
> can condition the inclusion of JIT based on having it.  Let's first agree
> on whether we want it in the first place.
>
> Zeev
>
-- 
-- Chase
chasepeeler@gmail.com

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