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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 15:55:26 +0100
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To: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>
Cc: Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com>, "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins
From: nikita.ppv@gmail.com (Nikita Popov)

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On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 2:07 PM Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:

> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Joe Watkins <krakjoe@gmail.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2019 2:59 PM
> >To: internals@lists.php.net
> >Subject: [PHP-DEV] RFC Abolish Narrow Margins
> >
> >Afternoon internals,
> >
> >Some time ago I brought up for discussion:
> >https://wiki.php.net/rfc/abolish-narrow-margins
> >
> >I intend to bring this up for vote in the next few days.
>
> Joe,
>
> Given that time that passed since I brought up my wider-scoped RFC, and
> yet haven't pushed it through (some major things were happening on my end,
> as you may have heard...) - I can imagine you're not going to like what I'm
> going to say, but fundamentally - nothing changed.  It still doesn't make
> sense, IMHO, to discuss the margin independently of other questions - even
> if you explicitly mention them as being outside of the scope of the RFC.
>
> Also, given the time that passed and the importance of this, it should
> require a brand new mandatory 2-week discussion period before we go for a
> vote - even if you insist on moving forward with this narrow-scoped RFC.
>
> At the same time, I'd like to finally solicit feedback explicitly on my
> wider-scoped RFC, as I guess we can't wait any longer.  I'll send a
> separate email about that.
>
> Zeev
>

I agree with Joe here that we should handle the question of voting margins
separately. Your RFC is a much more comprehensive reform, which contains a
number of points that look highly controversial to me (such as the eligible
voter changes). It may take a long time until we reach a satisfactory
consensus there.

On the other hand, this RFC is very simple and at least to me a complete
no-brainer. I already use 2/3 majority for all my votes, because I very
strongly believe that changes to PHP need to be held to a much higher
standard than a simple majority. It is outright shameful that functionality
can be added to PHP if 21 vote in favor and 20 against. That's not a
consensus, that's a complete disagreement.

It's not necessary to decide all questions regarding the RFC process at
once. Voting threshold is a very self-contained issue and we can decide it
separately from other controversial changes.

Regards,
Nikita

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