Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:103807 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 52272 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2019 20:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-it1-f174.google.com) (209.85.166.174) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2019 20:15:00 -0000 Received: by mail-it1-f174.google.com with SMTP id a6so77083itl.4 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 08:52:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=n2n3iXtNFyupEhuP/P76cW/hdeKuz8JSVG18fApsD3A=; b=DlaVxzKcljWHHZX/4cMLyvKwGNxyDxsVACm7tpWRSjick+feWFbYTcyuFcTJ0Dhjm9 mEzqXu1PGQeMDQfdOFSfOSqxHJqwR7mr+Lwyp4M9CCAcXXDigxDqzZXnGoVHncf0eDwe LufqWRZL6cFZjJORWivd7KHt75QeDZm0+c1TCmrBFwKD5XA6yA/sMpc12YIgI2zp/TQ9 nQ2f0y7C/gZ7XYS8ef/4eDISewu/X4QIhTUAn3r5jVZZ6d/FcEsc2XM0SykmoMT3B9k6 P62wClovn3gHeSnzDr/8fQfxg7beFrWRToirW0rcPz5vdIXy6a7QncQMwtty9PmBYMDB 7I2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=n2n3iXtNFyupEhuP/P76cW/hdeKuz8JSVG18fApsD3A=; b=Mr+mqIQeiXT95lIKQ7do0R0IzVXuvBdmiVK2YOuvjpyVG+GXkOVMh75KYRYwws+Tv1 2p8JgZbYVc4l4z9omd4nQmmU/ks0nGaOeQ3o6Q+Iv0WCWr6d+z5MiZm6G9cLl6rEc09Q 6WWmoGivqWu968Z5tISVC/O2kh7mCThNh5QLkUMo9qxQe5a7dm43Dhiw7kffGLB+cnh9 70X+sGx7xTS5I5kMNPo9Y3B04qZpUCqO5yXO0aDlFW5UMZs5YMe2nQyZVeB75JfeO42j MfthwBZcZ/VibNWl7WRUmISKX7fy3ugbOe5zhx8mqiQ6ldygkb2pWkT22xJBDIpAGCGR BcXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukftLZeU7Q+q0vCSOtXKsk28kfZ0mWlzkb5j8NTB9N6Xa4sekWy1 ea9ehDGsbaNqnasUWZMWtHQkblLSvOhMWCd1SCA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7NXPW+1VvEAaJ/AfSHL3ueGrv0YCl1EnEIA0f1/3ubb5fIQL7HYLBHYQX1fHp47i2zMkp2efGIxBalQSqhLPM= X-Received: by 2002:a24:32c5:: with SMTP id j188mr2038406ita.139.1548262375611; Wed, 23 Jan 2019 08:52:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:52:44 +0000 Message-ID: To: Benjamin Morel Cc: Thomas Hruska , Girgias , PHP Internals Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eae2a9058022ecb0" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecation ideas for PHP 8 From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Collins) --000000000000eae2a9058022ecb0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 16:37, Benjamin Morel wrote: > > 2.78 million vs. 5.1 million* code references. > > 1.54 million results. > > 10 million results. Broad, active usage. > > ... > > I would not in any way base deprecation decisions on current usage > statistics. If there are several ways to do something, and one is clearly > better than the others (naming consistency) then the choice should IMHO be > imposed to the community. > Every time you impose a change on the community, you are costing that community goodwill, time, and ultimately money. It is absolutely critical that decisions weigh that cost against the expected benefit. If the expected benefit is a small increase in readability, and the expected cost is a huge volume of existing code requiring changes, we should rule out the change. > Trying to make 10+ years old codebases work with recent versions of PHP > without modification slows down development a lot. > Major versions are here to break things. No, major versions are here *to improve the language while breaking as little as possible*. We are not in the business of change for change's sake; every change needs to be justified, regardless of where in the release cycle it comes. > Changelogs and runtime deprecation notices are here to help. > As others have pointed out, runtime deprecation notices have a cost on their own - they create noise in logs, obscuring more important changes, and taking up disk space. Again, this is a cost that needs to be weighed against the expected benefit. Regards, -- Rowan Collins [IMSoP] --000000000000eae2a9058022ecb0--