Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:103355 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 9564 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2018 03:55:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp91.iad3b.emailsrvr.com) (146.20.161.91) by pb1.pair.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2018 03:55:21 -0000 Received: from smtp12.relay.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp12.relay.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 4524EC011D; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:09:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: fsb@thefsb.org Received: by smtp12.relay.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: fsb-AT-thefsb.org) with ESMTPSA id 166CAC00AE; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:09:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: fsb@thefsb.org Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-76-119-4-100.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [76.119.4.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:465 (trex/5.7.12); Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:09:51 -0400 To: "Sammy Kaye Powers" Cc: "PHP Internals" Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 20:09:39 -0400 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12r5523) Message-ID: <1D2D9809-6A2D-49E5-9F86-FBB52AF538B5@thefsb.org> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_733E0A4F-9D70-4EEB-BA2D-71C70CCDFF6B_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [RFC] Improve openssl_random_pseudo_bytes() From: fsb@thefsb.org ("Tom Worster") --=_MailMate_733E0A4F-9D70-4EEB-BA2D-71C70CCDFF6B_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 19 Oct 2018, at 16:46, Sammy Kaye Powers wrote: > I'd like to start a discussion on the "Improve > openssl_random_pseudo_bytes()" RFC: > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/improve-openssl-random-pseudo-bytes > > TL;DR: > > CSPRNG implementations should always fail closed so this change would > make `openssl_random_pseudo_bytes()` fail closed. > > The second `$crypto_strong` parameter doesn't do anything despite the > docs stating otherwise. This unnecessarily confusing parameter would > be deprecated. At first glance I believed you were proposing that `openssl_random_pseudo_bytes()` should fail with an exception and that this would be an improvement. I would agree with that. With a little more concentration I see you're proposing something less ambitious that I'm less enthusiastic about. The function has been obsolete since 7.0 and A Bad Choice™ in all versions of PHP except when OS==Windows AND 5.4.0 <= PHP < 7.0. The only reason to keep this function is BC but removing the second param breaks BC for ALL conscientious and safe uses, i.e. seeking unpredictable (i.e. crypto strong) randoms from 5.4.0 <= PHP < 7.0 on Windows. There's no valid reason to ask for predictable randoms from OpenSSL and, afaik, its not unpredictable (i.e. it's unsafe) on other OSs. I'd love to see an RFC along the lines of: "Improve PHP's OpenSSL API by depreciating and eventually removing openssl_random_pseudo_bytes()". Idk the right schedule for removing it but how could deprecating it in 7.4 do more harm than good? Tom --=_MailMate_733E0A4F-9D70-4EEB-BA2D-71C70CCDFF6B_=--