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([2a00:23c4:4b86:4b00:b834:27cb:67d7:162f]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id n8-v6sm21969520wrt.56.2018.07.10.12.12.01 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:12:01 -0700 (PDT) To: internals@lists.php.net References: Message-ID: <465b3658-c091-691f-09fc-a4892559624d@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 20:11:56 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] On not rushing things at the last minute From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Collins) On 10/07/2018 14:10, Sara Golemon wrote: > What are the causes? I have noticed three approximate (and overlapping) categories of late RFC: 1) Submarine features: Features which have been developed over a long period, but where the author wanted to get things polished before formally announcing, e.g. typed properties 2) Quicky features: Simple changes which people have been *mentally* working on, often just deprecations and edge-case handling changes 3) Sleeping RFCs: Changes which enter initial discussion, go quiet, and sit in "Under Discussion" without reaching a vote In all three cases, I think the general psychology of deadlines comes into play: it's easy to put off those finishing touches when you've got plenty of time, then jump into action at the last minute. There seems to also be a reluctance to target anything other than the current cycle; partly just because "would you like it released in 6 months or 18 months?" is usually "sooner!" One thing that might help, particularly with the 1st and 3rd categories there, is a clearer set of statuses for RFCs and other features. We currently have 61 RFCs in the "Under Discussion" section of https://wiki.php.net/rfc; some of these are effectively abandoned, others just need polishing and taking to a vote. Then there are any number of experiments and TODO lists which could turn into a "submarine" or "quicky" feature. I'm not sure of the exact formula, but some possible lines of thought... - Have a separate status, or a separate list (dare I call it a "roadmap"?) for the RFCs targeting each release? - Include items on that list that aren't ready for an RFC yet? - Find some way to prune that list at key points in the release cycle? - Have some kind of inactivity timeout for what counts as "Under Discussion"? Maybe a new status/heading of "Dormant"? - Have a "put up or shut up" deadline? e.g. if you announce a feature targeting 7.4 now, you have to put it to vote by, say, March, not keep it ticking over until next July Regards, -- Rowan Collins [IMSoP]