Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:102699
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.216.181 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAF+90c_L7S+EB8YxdNNpNZ7NhhYwCbwEw5_TSnSwUNN-zLVvCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <b4a9394a-184f-906a-0e34-c14cf8172666@gmail.com> <CA+kxMuQk_5KJT5RPK6B2+4whS1Wz4NTxLDAhXkc0uSurxPNLPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAESVnVrFsZCEbwTTs+ROF19nHh6=XN6dhHJqxVw5EKa5bK5ngA@mail.gmail.com>
 <c2b3a7b2-b4b6-db88-a7c7-5a08fed0d8a4@telia.com> <CAF+90c8tNO1SsMjGnW9tGPGHtY4kD07SNS-qC_LfkVXVsp0GUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <10e578d7-7a24-3ca0-ca0d-d5ed1a39dca3@telia.com> <80a8f588-05a3-48e5-bf40-bf1685b3105e@gmx.de>
 <CAF+90c-gOKrnHtLv1oJuHQ9QWxYjEZHwAzzaUL0c18x48=HezQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <bd79bc16-ff3d-1c9b-a775-9c50c422b8a2@gmx.de> <CAESVnVpHhKPBsTQgu=4u3UPC1oF_e6-iW9_njbq+09WTQb+Oqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAESVnVogxMdbdObdS2Kz-+WP5U=+VvzVXfr55Qy6iYNg=2Z-Wg@mail.gmail.com>
 <DM5PR0201MB35423A128EDAFE866C73B66EAC460@DM5PR0201MB3542.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <D197D623-17A5-4EB3-A578-93BF860AD68E@ez.no> <CADyq6sJDo_4jBx3dZ6eR7mS29-aEB7Ky3eta9st2VQDra23crA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOWwgpkC+-jvwN5VQwuvf6726e6cG4TD7hPpFcbKmtOXT7671w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOWwgpkC+-jvwN5VQwuvf6726e6cG4TD7hPpFcbKmtOXT7671w@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 13:33:27 +0300
Message-ID: <CAJHtznxasnJE4mDsg7DYPBQZBCMkAKGafqj5MEMHMp03ye=RuQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com
Cc: ocramius@gmail.com, andre.romcke@ez.no, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, 
	Sara Golemon <pollita@php.net>, Internals <internals@lists.php.net>, nicolas.grekas@symfony.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bef57a0570a2a9ea"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Typed Properties
From: vsuraski@gmail.com (Zeev Suraski)

--000000000000bef57a0570a2a9ea
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 1:22 PM Nicolas Grekas <nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 2018-07-10 11:18 GMT+02:00 Marco Pivetta <ocramius@gmail.com>:
>
> > It's been a few weeks since this has first landed here, and we're just
> > wasting time in relatively silly discussions at this point:
> >
> >  - As I said earlier, this patch has already been tested against some
> > extremely tricky scenarios, so from a userland perspective it is safe for
> > inclusion. If you don't have confidence in something related to it,
> please
> > write a test case and help out.
> >  - can we get a yes/no from the RMs on whether we'll have the time window
> > to (potentially) get this voted and (*if* passed) merged? Shoot out a
> mail
> > with the decision, please. We could have a vote for which version to
> > include this in, if that's really such a big issue.
> >  - can we split out discussions on 8.0 scope? Minor versions are indeed
> for
> > features. If PHP 8.0 lacks interesting/marketing features, that's a
> > different story.
> >  - Nikita/Bob: can this be voted upon right after the RMs have taken a
> > decision? Anything blocking missing?
> >  - Is the reference issue reported by Nicolas a blocker? Nicolas, can you
> > clarify here?
> >
>
> I'm definitely ith you on this one Marco, typed properties is something
> userland asks since a long time and postponing it to 8.0 for "marketing"
> reasons might be very frustrating (well, we'll deal with that if it happens
> :) )
>
>
For the sake of those who weren't reading the discussion on the other
thread - the reason I believe it shouldn't go into 7.3 as well as the
reasons why I think this should be discussed for 8.0 are hardly just
'marketing' reasons, although I absolutely do think that decisions like
this (which version a certain feature goes into) is not exclusively or even
primarily a technical decision.

The reasons I stated were:
"the little time we have left, the little concrete discussion that happened
so far as a result, the inconsistency of allowing such a vote to push out
feature freeze, the scope of this feature being a lot more suitable for a
major release, and our inability to fix/improve other related elements at
the same time"

I've also given several examples - some of them arguably quite bigger than
this proposal - where we sat on code for a very long time (multiple years
even) in order for it to be included in a major version, and not a minor
one (phpng, JIT, FFI) even though technically they could go into the next
available minor.

Zeev

--000000000000bef57a0570a2a9ea--