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Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:36:18 +0200
Message-ID: <CAF+90c8Y4PAi+PCGnHV_xf3_3HaY8yc8Ww3nyur88UqX_xP+Kw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Zeev Suraski <vsuraski@gmail.com>
Cc: Sara Golemon <pollita@php.net>, "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@gmx.de>, 
	Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>, Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009d7d710570a02f11"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.3
From: nikita.ppv@gmail.com (Nikita Popov)

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On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 8:16 AM, Zeev Suraski <vsuraski@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: php@golemon.com [mailto:php@golemon.com] On Behalf Of Sara
> > Golemon
> > Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 5:41 PM
> > To: Christoph M. Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de>
> > Cc: Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>; Kalle Sommer Nielsen
> > <kalle@php.net>; Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
> > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.3
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 5:41 PM, Christoph M. Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de>
> > wrote:
> > > Sorry, that there has not been any decision yet.  However, Sara
> > > suggested that this decision is not solely up to the RMs[1], and I
> > > wouldn't know how to decide it then[2], since there has been at least
> > > one objection[3].
> > >
> > To clarify, it's ultimately an RM decision, but it should be guided by
> the larger
> > internals@ group.
> >
> > The way I read Zeev's objection is that it's primarily against TP, and
> not against
> > pushing out the FF per se.  I would recommend (in a non-RM, unofficial
> capacity)
> > pushing out the FF (not necessarily GA, but we can make that decision
> later).  If
> > these last minute things pass, they go in.  If they fail, then all we've
> done is
> > burned a month.
>
> It's a bit of both really.
>
> I hope that with all things considered (the little time we have left, the
> little concrete discussion that happened so far as a result, the
> inconsistency of allowing such a vote to push out feature freeze, the scope
> of this feature being a lot more suitable for a major release, and our
> inability to fix/improve other related elements at the same time) - Nikita
> will propose this for 8.0 instead of 7.x.
>

To make sure there are no unreasonable expectations involved in this
decision: If this feature will not go into PHP 7.3, then it will in all
likelihood go into PHP 7.4 instead. I think I can safely say not just on
behalf on Bob and myself, but also on behalf of the wider PHP community,
that we are not willing to sit on this feature for 2.5~3 years until a
hypothetical PHP 8, even though it is essentially ready *now*. Of course,
this is not my decision to make, but as Sara put it, that's the writing on
the wall. By deciding not to include this in PHP 7.3, we are essentially
making an implicit decision that PHP 7.4 is going to be a relatively
ordinary feature release rather than a deprecation-only one. (Which is fine
by me really, I don't like the idea of a release that's all stick and no
carrot.)

Finally, given the current situation where we have a whopping five (!!)
RFCs with votes ending the day before feature freeze, I'd say postponing
the schedule is a good idea even without any consideration to typed
properties. Just landing something like the comparison overloading RFC on
the day of feature freeze is not going to be pretty. We are quite obviously
rushing things right now, and I don't think keeping to some otherwise
arbitrary date is worth that.

Regards,
Nikita

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