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(wim@godden.net@192.168.150.190) by brussels3.firstlinknetworks.com with ESMTPA; 24 Jun 2018 20:18:45 -0000 To: internals@lists.php.net References: Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=wim.godden@cu.be; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFgw1fIBEADy2Fxn52rqQHG2KPhrxOGAAZvd3Bi+iCmxycw2fswU2sr5PSunWlQd4rbI /sG5xz/oorGeQuOPWxjRNE3w1NJFmhs2qtOO+uNxw0j7vhmlX8+x9YgY/5gWdnA5JI/FERHf yWX6F+5diEIBCGAt+2yTRqOIj9qDpPmn5ZQVQ35TX1RhyyuxYP5JUs3zuOQ4McBYrFfhqM54 0mmfLcEwF7mUzTgGTEdaE4NN3B5eUEzK0dUFZ+yUvwTfUZuxTMB4woZPM3N570lFvDU+3abP VTcqP8WMM2pjT5hb8sHSnlBhXrZdcCG78CECnoq/MOZLoYucVFUveV3unFdwpyNVjUeCudAC lh/7MfBHYsRnIjitMmQvpDufBUrQqjTFDkDbcN/HIF0NzRDWSnxwtWNTAeVsHtdTnJVhO7R2 cz0+mMbdAP+N4kp0io865GCaQpkbHOcrmL3P+g4gu6MT4itnLMXMwIZJc92sSKJjtBbqHtgJ PY/4Y36jE4dRjxUox7qcekXigqvOdHTmxwy6O23jhQLLPIZFEqNcFoWG2NIIIhneMmJRpW8k wCrNPoTJqPM/hXcoWLXmZGjgyZ0+cVndfHj+QPp2x4gSSYIB2IUjJOM5+mE3IAkvJ+Jwg0sL IH03cYcCOBqTynJv+6/Rg7+2XkpwdA8osMeL1UqcOVZFaej97wARAQABzRZXaW0gR29kZGVu IDx3aW1AY3UuYmU+wsF/BBMBCAApBQJYMNhLAhsjBQkJZgGABwsJCAcDAgEGFQgCCQoLBBYC AwECHgECF4AACgkQkzZZamlnsqj99RAAl8Rosng1W2YrmuddW5KlJKJMYtJi6nz01N2BdP84 hXfp1FnsXmXP26eyxJaMfKL7qjMo1LMdrF0TMs42g21+HQzvV9z56AamiCpXh6Lp8yTBaC04 FssWboJUP8eo2TrtMQa5H++gFn/0ccmpecuMadz3jXgn4/M3cZYgotjClTCxptkmhM4MCaRw p5adkD3Wii7/N1+BGN1lXcEgpAWuHIPgJPGYL4/DtC62e5Rzxx+PP62YwmqeAWmF56Z84CNm 8rGjwaUg+Vwm4fxL5K3lckbcq4VuyVPkhateak/DHfId945lEBezz+rB7zi9yfxfgyRc0o3e DtFKyORWUq8IUcYbS3xInbsAAblHxeStYVRNUPgBxRYELam701LU8Ta51AvYiRTeGKSyeycz 1Br8BF8GHwq9OvI7M2Bmg/9AVp/RD1poa3xdYgQOoRcWgv4cU2gpmODof1maVkvwdflWB041 6jndwqr3d3tgUKh33moLuGfv3b3JUyWoiul/974ZzjxpwqgAkkv6+U3PbwzF3Rg8tqkTeGBv cOtX2ZVrCy8AxnkBS5A/mrhm4Z7g8NT9BdYY2qghZC4WapcpmaHG5f8yCg9xYV+bU+3fXYXn zL9LzYobDdzfcOOyWMtH1r9u2Vxo8HuQqWer3CckxG8XGo/QkB5blEVrDWbsTAdIVj3OwU0E WDDV8gEQALzeu+i9fIIgGCAdsFXmdc+siKzfgjDyCOrBoFh4F2lxtHhf1E5O8MsdZa5vB+Eb a6cJcVWwnNIJ53YT44ovj8vZk+CyP9n7HrgKIfCDNvbUenWdA+Uw2rTBKcbK8YAriXDsM4cf LYcmdzPWKIxl+GYmQDCNs2F07TvCO+yhZSlLzb+D4WTMZP9RQXVsV53u2RuBJB77mVu0pWvL GyBY4ZIKCpREPK88klIBkx5qsh6kyaL7JidsMBuGaBQEr35rhRGsiC+GUPyp48YprU3vwEuW yUoLJItnwNQCPQ4c0pP8O2n9pwVLdjktTBOddLd+Fpdk5aut368xwHPXeLrg8/CVWa4YHb6X McMhym8+39dExMJq/FaeAuScEAHe7IH39k5rLnKEKvkSzfZT8Sp1mHx8kU7b6X6dLlSH3Z/G KH7qZp2RyAqF4znv7cltPiJDdJxkzd0YgVUViJJHyrd9/B/ytvX9/NeOHgrOUfuLR/yI5qRL dFje03yCKqtTuXoYiEGOypAOwlUzG4jiJl6LGEuxfvPpn4JQ81ofBD2soASQSwP8nKZGSxWt stkQnBr9pUIxTZRcytXFsR4vwMc1YVHy9JG+LEWGLbQBjrnoBevUspFR17yRipfbe4kWTU2Y OgLHZgxwiRmiNcIsEsWzlmAKZJKRy+qR+IwNJS1H9+zTABEBAAHCwWUEGAEIAA8FAlgw1fIC GwwFCQlmAYAACgkQkzZZamlnsqjlABAAhTwvioGQ+UOF8iJYEHKvF0jfwxLIYj+GD0VmgYhg UW9MYuqJbz+Z8fTcw6ebOi6gYt/dX7H60dw5qLPDx7CedK5oQMNNdK/SEjLMUvWpWRUfZbup qm/NnICFsWAKUHlw4PPb9mtLK/HofaJt4G1rhdKttXQRIJH7PZseQ1kLizAHt4P3cP7bqApE 3o6DTqE4ekKgw65StFGB+lo6gKWaab0VYV5JHWm2p5aD/0a97+NZxAcQAYFGoT6oOaQrcuQh tgHSaEvHUQz4+1f6AFYISULXNRmBsx0NSjxgRf9rNl06ktXq84m0nQLoSkIJ+xwrP7kiALAd YVRLqphmao8DnrsnhShwvvpUZfPwzZkaM1U6WORh05tBOHtNRkv6GbInYWDiKs1hB5YR8EBZ DKUmrWDbmfiXc7s+ECE/49R+M96URB/CQLLzPF+dp9Vv/w1errtagDIjjsEv8D0DSHDk9r4B Ylqffx4ZPg30jQ+LZI9qfmJob4tiu2gImRtD57V9kEqYfKHS1f9/UOffo7XmWdbrJE4CGrfg oAGSKgX5AbgourF6dHCL9oXHFqj4SINP1otHT0ahqNUwfl4qXx43rC8CLlNzL6hJGckOA5P4 z1xv5RCTWgmplTFhDlVRgDqUV8CH1PnxrBKqlpva/EgNam7zQnOgo8sZ/0i3CtYygQ8= Organization: Cu.be Solutions Message-ID: <5c8b3ec8-8c54-835e-7220-e92f3117e211@cu.be> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 22:22:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 8 next? From: wim.godden@cu.be (Wim Godden) On 24/06/2018 22:09, Zeev Suraski wrote: >> My position stands: I *strongly* object. If we rush to PHP 8 then it >> will be at >> least 4-5 more years before we have another chance for breakages in PH= P 9. We >> can add features yearly. > Fair enough, your position is obviously entirely up to you - I just wa= nted to point out that having pushing a major version was never about bre= aking things - it was about delivering major new capabilities or performa= nce to users - with the ability to break things as a side effect. I don'= t think I've ever seen nor delivered a PHP 7 presentation that included s= tatements like "I can't wait to show you all the different things we brok= e in this new major version!!!" - this isn't what major versions are abou= t. > > I should also add that my position also stands - there's nothing that s= pectacular about breaking things, and for me at least, the celebration of= being able to break things and the yearn to break more things before 4-5= years pass by is awkward. If we could bring major value with the users = being able to just upgrade without an intense code audit/refactoring cycl= es, it's a feature - not a bug as far as I'm concerned. > > That said - it's OK that we break things if the value of breaking them = far outweighs the cost of fixing the consequences of the breakage - and b= y that I mean a more prolonged upgrade cycle and a certain degree of user= angst. I'd like to add to that : from the past 15 years we've seen that most Linux distributions didn't really seem to care much about keeping up with PHP versions, seemingly "because it's all PHP 5" (they didn't care much about the major difference between 5.2, 5.3, 5.4 and beyond). Ever since PHP 7 was released, there's been a lot more activity on their end to get their distribution released either with PHP 7( even .1/.2), or add PHP 7.x to an additional repo they support. =46rom that perspective, having a major version makes a lot of sense in keeping the momentum going from the system engineering end of things, ensuring they continuously keep an eye on what the latest version of PHP = is. Just my 2 cents as a non-core contributor. Wim