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Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 14:42:41 -0600
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Mailing list moderation
From: larry@garfieldtech.com (Larry Garfield)

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On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 11:17:53 AM CST Michael Morris wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Chase Peeler <chasepeeler@gmail.com> wro=
te:
> > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 10:49 AM Paul Jones <pmjones88@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jan 2, 2018, at 12:29, Dustin Wheeler <mdwheele@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> > >=20
> > > > On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Levi Morrison <levim@php.net> wrot=
e:
> > > If someone dislikes Tony's commentary for any reason (or no reason!)
> > > they
> > > are free to filter his messages themselves -- and then unfilter his
> > > messages when they see fit.
> >=20
> > I agree with Paul. It would be different if email clients that allowed
> > filtering were expensive or hard to find. They aren=E2=80=99t, though. =
Pretty much
> > every email client not only allows filtering, but rather advanced
> > filtering
> > as well.
>=20
> All fine and well, but it doesn't work when people start quoting the
> offender. Also, filters don't stop the poison from affecting the mood of
> the posters who interact with him.
>=20
> In my experience loud and obnoxious voices drive off thoughtful and
> introspective ones every time. That is the consequence of giving a platfo=
rm
> to them. As the saying goes, It's pointless to wrestle a pig - you'll just
> get muddy and the pig enjoys it. From a moderators standpoint, if you
> refuse to block jerks eventually all you'll be left with are jerks.

^^ That.  Exactly that.  Active refusal to police a community results in a=
=20
race to the bottom.  Every time.  Every single time.  Add up the amount of=
=20
time we're even discussing it, multiply by hour hourly rate...  That's how=
=20
much it's costing us to even have this discussion about whether or not we=20
should expel a long time troll.

> > Instead of suspending users, no matter how egregious their offenses may
> > be,
> > let individual users filter them out as they see fit.
>=20
> Again, in my experience people usually elect to simply leave altogether
> rather than set a long block list.  And frankly Tony isn't worth even one
> contributing coder.

Precisely.

"Instead of banning abusive users on Twitter, no matter how egregious their=
=20
offenses may be, let individual users do the work of blocking them as they =
see=20
fit."

Because putting all of the penalty on the people being attacked, belittled,=
=20
and distracted is a great idea.  Or they'll just self-filter and leave.

> Tony has been asked multiple times by multiple people to behave.  He's be=
en
> banned from other PHP related forums I know of. He's not here to contribu=
te
> in any meaningful way, only complain and make passive agressive swipes at
> other users. I could go on, but I think that alone makes the case that he
> needs to be gone.

+1 for outright removal of both, but Tony in particular.  In my 10 years on=
=20
this list I haven't seen Tony post constructively once.  I've seen him insu=
lt,=20
gaslight, and whataboutism a hundred times.  Please, whoever runs this list=
,=20
put him out of our misery.

=2D-Larry Garfield
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