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Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 13:46:24 -0600
Cc: Paul Jones <pmjones88@gmail.com>,
 PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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To: Joe Watkins <pthreads@pthreads.org>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Mailing list moderation
From: aaron@trowski.com (Aaron Piotrowski)


> On Jan 3, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Joe Watkins <pthreads@pthreads.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> The precedent has been set already: One of these users was already =
kicked
> off the list and decided to resubscribe and continue to conduct =
themselves
> in an unacceptable manner.
>=20
> This is a forum for technical discussion regarding the development of =
PHP:
> We must be able to keep conversation focused and one of the tools we =
have
> to do that is restricting who is able to post. It seems perfectly
> reasonable to exercise that power in order to improve the quality of
> conversation and keep it focused.
>=20
> Banning or suspending these users, and anyone else incapable of =
conducting
> themselves reasonably, will serve that purpose.
>=20
> Let's remember that there are a large number of people on the =
sidelines
> that are not subscribed to the list directly, but choose to use news
> readers, or the excellent externals.io; They may not able to filter
> messages from any individuals, so they are in effect forced to =
navigate
> through these "contributions" from problematic posters. That's not =
fair to
> them, at all. All of the conversations here are a matter of public =
record,
> not only existing in your mail client, or inbox, or whatever ... We =
can and
> should be eliminating noise from that public record.
>=20
> Cheers
> Joe

Exactly. There needs to be consequences when someone cannot conduct =
themselves in a manner that's fitting to a technical discussion. It's =
infuriating when people on this list make personal attacks and then act =
as though nothing wrong has been done. Clearly either they don't =
understand or do not care. Either way they need to know there are =
consequences for such actions.

This is not at all about silencing those whose opinions differ from the =
majority. Those viewpoints are important and must be heard. However =
relentlessly pushing a particular viewpoint and resorting to personal =
attacks becomes a problem. At some point it is no longer constructive =
and is just spam.

I and many others avoid participating on the list unless absolutely =
necessary. There is no time or energy to wade through the noise to find =
the actual discussion of the topic at hand.

>=20
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 7:45 PM, Paul Jones <pmjones88@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 12:35, Joe Watkins <pthreads@pthreads.org> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> You don't get to conduct yourself however you want without =
consequence.
>>=20
>> Sure. The question then, is, what is the proper consequence? I hold =
that
>> it is not "banning" or "suspension" (which may or may not actually be
>> within the delegated powers of anyone on this list). Instead, it is =
"to be
>> ignored, by those who choose to ignore you."
>>=20

Trying to filter out all messages from certain users is untenable. =
Either too much is filtered because a banned person is CC'ed on a =
constructive comment, or too little is filtered and there's still noise =
from those replying to the filtered user. Banning or suspension should =
not be used lightly, but I think we've reached a point where it is =
warranted.

I think a simple PHP CoC similar to the JS Foundation [1] would be =
helpful by providing a basis for what is deemed acceptable.

Aaron Piotrowski

[1] https://js.foundation/community/code-of-conduct