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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 07:39:35 -0500
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To: Michael Kliewe <mkliewe@gmx.de>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP's mail servers suck
From: pollita@php.net (Sara Golemon)

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 6:59 AM, Michael Kliewe <mkliewe@gmx.de> wrote:
> Am 08.11.2017 um 12:09 schrieb Sara Golemon:
>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 2:51 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com> wrote:
>>> So please send your volunteer requests there, but not just a generic offer
>>> to help. Please include a concrete description of what you plan on doing.
>>> As in which software or configuration changes. If it is just replace ezmlm
>>> with Mailman, then you are going to have to make a really really strong
>>> case for why you think a sideways migration like that will make any
>>> difference. It is also important to understand the difference between the
>>> list server and the mail server responsibilities.
>> Without any generally available information about the existing email
>> infrastructure, it's hard to make targeted comments about how to fix
>> what is obviously broken with this system which literally nobody with
>> the ability to fix cares about.  That means a either a conversation
>> (which should be a shared experience (therefore internals@) or an
>> essentially open request for "I'd like to help, but I'll need the
>> ability to poke around to figure out wtf is going on".
> The problem seems to be the mailing list software, not the mail server.
> Mail servers just transfer bytes from A to B.
>
> The PHP mailing list software is not configured DMARC compliant. DMARC
> means, either SPF or DKIM has to be valid. The PHP mailing list changes
> the Subject (it adds [PHP-xxxx]), that's why the DKIM signature breaks.
> SPF breaks, because Gmail and others don't include the IP address of the
> PHP mailing list mailserver in their SPF records. So SPF also fails.
>
> Easiest fix should be:
> - Don't touch the email, especially don't change the Subject. Then the
> DKIM signature stays valid, and DMARC is happy.
>
> Maybe the better way:
> - Change the From:-Header to an email address that php.net owns, and put
> the original email address into the displayname. Like:
> Michael (mkliewe@gmx.de via PHP-DEV Mailing List)
> <members-internals@lists.php.net>
> - Remove existing (now broken) DKIM-Signatures, and add php.net own DKIM
> signature (alternative: change to X-Original-DKIM-Signature)
> - Set the original From: email address into Reply-To: if you want
> - Because now it's "your" email, you can change the Subject + content as
> you like.
>
> Obviously the mailing list software has to support this procedure.
> In MailMan for example you can configure this with some settings:
> https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
> For ezmlm there seems to be something in 7.2.0:
> https://untroubled.org/ezmlm/archive/7.2.0/CHANGES
>  "- Added optional rewritefrom feature to ezmlm-send, automatically
> enabled when the sender has a "reject" DMARC policy."
>
> Hope this helps to see, that it has to be fixed in the mailing list
> software, not the mailserver.
>
This would seem to describe *one* problem and potential solution set,
and I appreciate the detailed response; However it's certainly not the
entire scope of everything that's wrong with @php.net email.  Notably,
signing up for mailing lists should not be impacted by this
misconfiguration, yet new would-be contributed are regularly stymied
by our sign up process.  Additionally, I use at least one distribution
alias which isn't part of the mailing list software and I get "looks
like spam" rejections from the MTA a few times per month.