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Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:51:13 +0200
Message-ID: <CANUQDCjgi5XN1vmAsR0arxsPfxZGOjF6oqZmZ+zQQUsizYfRSA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>
Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Johannes_Schl=C3=BCter?= <johannes@schlueters.de>, 
	Mathias Grimm <mathiasgrimm@gmail.com>, Sara Golemon <pollita@php.net>, 
	PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113cf052c74d2105550d2719"
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] bugs.php.net website
From: me@kelunik.com (Niklas Keller)

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2017-07-24 10:15 GMT+02:00 Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net>:

> Hi Johannes
>
> 2017-07-24 0:03 GMT+02:00 Johannes Schl=C3=BCter <johannes@schlueters.de>
> > It is also good for the PHP ecosystem at large to show we're using
> > libraries, where it makes sense. If we use a variety we're also not
> > favoring single ones :)
>
> As much as I agree with that, I do not see a big thing that using a
> library makes it much easier to do for a bug tracker that fits our
> needs. Okay maybe a captcha or SSO, but the rest can be done in a
> simple encapsulation that we don't need thousands of lines of code
> just to implement something so basic.
>
> > A reason for this is that these sites are not "actively developed" and
> > it should be possible to find the relevant code within a few minutes,
> > even when looking at it every second year or though. With the current
> > architecture I go to search.php's code and can see what's going on.
> > With a framework I have to see how the framework handles the routing
> > and where the relevant controller is and so on and so forth ...  this
> > is contrary to other projects under constant development possibly by
> > larger teams and is also different from developing a generic bug
> > tracker (or whatever site you look at) where things need to be
> > configurable for different usage scenarios ...
>
> I think the main reason for these sites not being actively developed
> is that they do their job, I did some minor cosmetics to the bug
> tracker, but besides maybe better integration with github PR's, I
> can't see that many more features our tracker needs.
>
> I get that with a framework it makes the debugging route easier or if
> you are just curious to study the code, and we can still achieve that
> with simplistic encapsulation where it makes sense. If we keep your
> example with search, what we can do is to implement functionality that
> returns records based on criteria, we need that functionality in
> multiple places anyway.
>
> I always saw the PHP project as an example to how powerful the
> language is by its own, out of the box and I will continue to advocate
> for us to continue that way


It's unmaintained code, nobody wants to touch it. Any attempt to improve
anything doesn't go anywhere, because there are too many people saying the
current state is fine.

See https://github.com/php/web-bugs/pull/26 for an example.

There's no need for a framework, libraries are just fine. But saying that
the PHP project is a good example for how powerful the language is, is ...
really strange.

The attitude of "don't change anything, it's fine" makes it really hard to
find motivation to contribute anything.

Regards, Niklas

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