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Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 22:54:54 +0000
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To: Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com>
Cc: Andreas Heigl <andreas@heigl.org>, Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] bugsnet cleanup
From: pthreads@pthreads.org (Joe Watkins)

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Evening Stas,

(sorry for double delivery to you stas .... grrrrr)

A lot of the time a feature request is just not enough; it requires at
least a good discussion, if not an RFC.

When a PR is made on github, it interrupts everybody's day that has starred
or watched php-src: This has to be many more than have a subscription to,
or bother to read their subscription to bugsnet.

This usually results in a good discussion, at least it will draw out
objections and supporters more effectively than bugsnet does (because you
can just click an emoticon now) .

That there were feature requests open on bugsnet for more than a decade,
some without comments, some open as long as 15 years, should be a hint that
it is not useful as a collaboration tool anymore, and we have at our
disposal some of the best collaboration tools on offer for free.

All I really want to do at the moment is cleanup, but to be perfectly
honest I am not sure why we are using bugsnet for anything, given we took
the effort to switch over to git, source is hosted on github, the vast
majority of PECL extensions are hosted on github (or bitbucket or some
other collab+vcs solution), and they come with far superior collaboration
tools to the ones that nobody bothers to maintain for php-src.

I think this deserves consideration, we should be making the most out of
what is on offer.

I also think that doing things in the wide open has unseen benefits, while
bugsnet is open, it's in a dark corner of the internet that not enough
people bother to visit.

As mentioned, at the moment we should just clean up, but we should look to
the future, and we should move forward also ...

TL;DR I think we can do a better job of this if we use the right tools.

Cheers
Joe

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> > The problem with accepting feature requests on bugsnet is that, most of
> > the time, nobody can implement them because of modern processes.
>
> Why not? One can attach pull or write an RFC based on it. Having ticket
> in bugs dot php dot net does not prevent it, it just records the need for
> it.
>
> > It's not harmful to us, but it is harmful to the person requesting the
> > feature, who is probably ignorant of modern processes, and bound to stay
> > that way until we educate them, or disable feature requests on bugsnet
> > altogether.
>
> We can add comments to those FRs that require RFCs.
>
> > I think I would like to see feature requests disabled on bugsnet,
> > thereby pushing everyone to use the proper channels (github, internals,
> > RFC's).
>
> These channels are not exclusive. In fact, bugs site is the only
> permanent record for non-RFC requests, and for RFC ones, sometimes
> significant time passes between idea showing up and RFC being ready, and
> in that time, we won't have any record of anybody needing this.
>
> > What do you think ?
>
> I don't think disabling FRs is good. Screening them and noting that some
> of them will need RFCs to be implemented is good.
>
> --
> Stas Malyshev
> smalyshev@gmail.com
>

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